@r000t i'd wait for the systemd apologists to arrive, but they usually are on the fEdibLoCk servers.. :)

@bonifartius @r000t Systemd is a piece of shit, as we don't have enough with kernel bugs and vulnerabilities and now we have to deal with that piece of shit.

@r000t @bonifartius @jrballesteros05 we don't have to deal with it. I don't use it, for instance. there're distributions without it, no problem. it's the same useless as it was when it appeared.

@iron_bug @r000t @bonifartius In the desktop, there is not problem because there are alternatives, actually I use Artixlinux with s6. But in the corporate the options are less.

@r000t @bonifartius @jrballesteros05 there's no difference between desktop and server. Linux is well scalable, always was. we used gentoo on one work, it was very well "corporate". no difference, really. I would say that developer builds with fresh software are more rare than standard builds for servers without need of daily updates.

@iron_bug @r000t @bonifartius When I work I tried to replace Debian with Devuan but we use Proxmox a lot and currently is not possible to install Proxmox in Devuan. If you see the main cloud providers (This could be another debate), you barely see non-systemd options. That's why I mean and many companies go "standard".

In my case I don't mind to use qemu in cli but I don't take those choices in the company I work.

My concern is that more apps have hard depends on systemd.

@jrballesteros05 @iron_bug

i think it's very hard to find companies who don't use a systemd distribution after even debian switched. many people like this "unification" and don't see the bad deal they make with using systemd: bugs non existent before (like the current systemd-crash-bug), shitty reimplementations of >30 year old modular software systems (systemd-resolved is utter crap, even the local-dnsmasq-solution was better) and exponential raise in linking dependencies, because things now use systemd includes everywhere. we've had IPC via sane text based protocols (with the binary exception if it made sense). now we have crazy dbus constructs and people trying to reimplement windows.

systemd proponents say ".service files are so easy to write!" when in reality you only have to write the PID to a file and add a signal handler to your program if it needs to shutdown gracefully. hell, build a "myprogramctl" tool which talks to the daemon via IPC, also fine. i think 95% of the people don't know, and probably don't care because "it's old!", how these things work anymore.

if your software needs fancy systemd features to run correctly, it's broken. if you need the automagick-restart-feature, it's broken. systemd is enabling laziness/bad software in exchange for brittle, inscrutable complexity.

@r000t

@r000t @bonifartius @jrballesteros05 and yes, by deletion of useless-d from system you save a lot of CPU power wasted in vain and thus take care of the environment! :)

@iron_bug

i really should turn it off, i'm not even sure what software on my system still uses it..

@r000t @jrballesteros05

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