Привет @rf!

Смотрю есть такая вещь как ufoi.org, что представляет собой _открытый_ аналог joinmastodon.org, включая собственный устав. Там уже присутствуют наши соседи типа lor.sh и правилам поведения наш инстанс соответствует. Но при этом список инстансов временно скрыт с сайта чтобы избежать недопонимания и драмы.

Вопрос: Стоит ли подать туда заявку? И что вы думаете насчёт #UFoI?

@saiv46 обсуждали на последних регулярках.

Теперь видно, что это прямой аналог федиблока, но вместо блокировки оперирующий гарантией НЕблокировки. И вот эта самая идея мне крайне не нравится, т. к. она идёт поперёк самостоятельности отдельных узлов, а это ключевая фишка Федивёрса. Да, можно в любой момент выйти и избавиться от обязательств, но есть опасение, что некоторые участники UfoI сами сочтут это поводом для блокировки.

Не, я понимаю, *зачем* это сделано. Чтобы участники принимали решения "как для себя" и не превращали обсуждение решений в балаган. И альтернативы лучше у меня нет.

И мне нравится их идея осторожного и прозрачного рассмотрения инцидентов многими сторонами, и это для модераторов может быть полезно как источник информации для сложных или неизученных случаев. И если бы не проблема выше, я бы таким применением и ограничился вместо полноценного членства.

А так… Любая федерация, в конечном счёте, сумма своих участников. Посмотрим на участников.


This is why you shoukd join now, early. So you can be a participant and get a say in who joins and how the rules are worded. You can guide it where you want it.

Just leave if it heads in a bad direction. We are all here because we hate petty blocking, no one will block you for leaving, some people already left and there were no hard feelings.

Also remeber the names will be hidden until we get a much bigger size, big enough we wont be bullied.Even now the ones bullying are the ones that will target you eventually. Safer in a grouo than getting picked off one by one.


@freemo this may only last until the first big disagreement, which just hasn't happened so far. And that's when people tend to pick sides very firmly and often irrationally. That's where a massive divide might happen that otherwise would be much more localized were instances to think for just themselves.

I just see this as unnecessary centralization and extra potential for "guilt by association". Claims to the contrary are just statements of intention that, from my perspective, contradict the bylaws.

The Fediverse is flexible, I would even say fluid, in defining and following the rules. Every server is fully in control of their own moderation decisions and users are free to migrate. UFoI compromises and complicates this structure.

I also suspect it targets the wrong audience. This may be an unsound guess, but I reckon rash moderation decisions are made by irresponsible (in the moment at least) or underinformed moderators. I don't see why'd they join the UFoI anyway.



I see it very much to the contrary.. its an organization where a bunch of people were victims of "guilt by association" got together to stop it... considering that a threat to guilt by association sounds like a huge leap.

It also isnt centralized, it is decentralized.. thats why it is built to be compatable with "sister federations" (horizontal decentralization) and coalitions (vertical decentralization)


@freemo well, victims, yes. But are they the ones issuing rash blocks that would be fixed were they to join the UFoI? Some, maybe. This is the part of my reasoning where I probably lack experience for a sound estimate, as I've never moderated anything on Fediverse specifically. So hey, you may very well know better.

Still, looking at the website, you seem to already be anticipating problems in that area:

> It is strongly encouraged that instances that are not members of the UFoI are not assumed to be bad-actors simply due to not being a member.
> Any instance not within the UFoI should be judged on its own merit without prejudice.
> — ufoi.org/docs/bylaws

Regarding centralization — I meant that it's certainly *more* centralized compared to doing nothing, as the entity does take over some of the mod-decision-making from its members.



Also I'd argue its more decentralized in a weird round about way... if you do nothing we see huge fracuring and insular silos spring up.. each small group is highly centralized since things are only decentralized if they arent isolated....

Since this prevents fracturing in fact it preserves decentralization and thus is less centralized.


@freemo hard no from me on that one. A rule of thumb I use — how many people are affected by a single moderation decision from a given entity. More participants affected => more centralization. (And yes, that includes instance growth too.)



Ok, though the UFoI doesnt make moderation decisions at all.. this isnt a block list afterall.

Out of curiosity are you a user or an admin?


@freemo it is an effective veto for some of the moderation actions. I'd say that counts. Deciding to not do something is still a decision.

On Fedi I'm a user, my past moderation experience comes from other communities, most reasonably small and one decently sized Stack Exchange (not a diamond mod, but a high-ranking user with maximum privileges and a significant Meta presence) — notably, all on centralized platforms.




Im not sure i agree its a veto... members who join the UFoI do so because their rules are already compatible.. they do so because they are already moderating that way. If they change their moderation to not be compatible they leave... When there is an open door policy it isnt centralization as there is no sense of control.

Its better to think of it as certification "I am certified by theUFoI that I meet certain minimum standards".. it isnt centralization because youa rent required to be certified and may choose whatever standards you want, and even get certified under a different set of standards by a different federation.


@freemo it's an "open door with strings attached". There are benefits to being on UFoI after all. So there is at least some incentive to stay and even change policy to fit UFoI against the spirit of the local community. Is there a lot of it? Probably not.

It's not a strong kind of centralization, but, like I said, comparatively it's more than when everyone thinks and acts on behalf of just their instances.


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