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@dside

I think the skeptisim is healtthy, as i said its why we added the right to leave clause... My suggestion would be join.. act like a force of rationality to keep the ship headed int he right direction (which only happens if you have a vote as a member).. if it goes south, leave. There is the off chance people might block you for leaving but thatts no worse than it is now where people will block you for having any opinion that differs from their own.

@saiv46

@dside

Also I'd argue its more decentralized in a weird round about way... if you do nothing we see huge fracuring and insular silos spring up.. each small group is highly centralized since things are only decentralized if they arent isolated....

Since this prevents fracturing in fact it preserves decentralization and thus is less centralized.

@saiv46

@dside

I didnt add that clause because im anticipating problems. I added it because you are :)... I wanted to make it very clear that isnt what the UFoI is about fromt he get go. It is there to put your mind at ease more than it is to put mine at ease :)

@saiv46

@andrewt

I've taken your concerns into consideration and changed our ToS to be more clear.. do you think this satisfies your concerns (see our ToS, its live)

Under what will get you banned:

No hate speech, We define hate speech as any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour, that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a protected characteristic, in other words, based on their age, disability, ethnicity, gender, pregnancy, nationality, sex or sexuality.

Under What won't get you banned:

Unpopular opinions voiced respectfully will be fine, so long as it doesnt violate our other rules.

@doot

@andrewt

Help me understand here. Do you think a user would look at the rule β€œno hate speech” and assume that it meant they couldn’t say Windows Phones are good?

Its a qualifying clause, not an exceptional clause.. so that question doesnt make sense unless it were an exceptional clause.

β€œno bots but black people are ok”

The difference is hate-speech is sometimes misused to include things that arent hate-speech.. othertimes its misused to not include things that are hate speech…. on the other side I have never seen the term “bot” being misused to include black people…

All that said clearly the clause is causing confusion and you are interpriting it in a way that it wasnt meant to be. It is my job to make it more clear then… I will reword it now and move that qualifying clause to its own line and therefore address your concern so it wont be mistaken as an exceptional clause.

@doot

UFoI 

@Ryle

Adds a green check mark next to your link to your user profile.

@ufoi @joaopinheiro

@goatsarah

If you arent part of the solution then you are part of the problem...

@doot

@joaopinheiro

Lets summarize.. if you tell fasciests they are pieces of shit they will block you and tell others to do the same.... Sounds a bit like fascism with extra steps.

@Ryle

@joaopinheiro

Oh in that case it is kinda needed because it plays to a feature only mastodon has.

@Ryle @ufoi

@koyu

Why must everyone turn good things into toxic things... its depressing.

@trinsec

@dside

I see it very much to the contrary.. its an organization where a bunch of people were victims of "guilt by association" got together to stop it... considering that a threat to guilt by association sounds like a huge leap.

It also isnt centralized, it is decentralized.. thats why it is built to be compatable with "sister federations" (horizontal decentralization) and coalitions (vertical decentralization)

@saiv46

@joaopinheiro

Lets summarize.. if you tell fasciests they are pieces of shit they will block you and tell others to do the same.... Sounds a bit like fascism with extra steps.

@Ryle

@goatsarah

Well the "sales pitch" is posted as a draft. Thats intentional, the point is so you and people like you can jump in and help reword it to get it to something you do like... So why not go in and make edits and suggestions to something you find more appealinng. I have no doubt it will go through.

@doot

@goatsarah

Absolutely, I agree, it should not be your job to protect yourselves, it should be the job of those in the community to make the community a place that is moral and just.

No one is saying you cant disengage, or that you shouldnt have the right.. am also not saying that it is right that this action leads to more harm, it shouldnt... but the sad fact is, it does. When you accuse the good people risking everything of being Nazis and drive them off by shunning, you create a space where people dont try to make a safe space for you, its wrong, they should do it anyway, but they wont. Especially when the abuse (being called a nazi or treated like one) is coming from the people you try to help and when you do that and get hated by both sides now.

I can relate to my own expiernces, and please try to also consider where im coming from... I took a stance for 5 years now that as we can all see is a large component in having the community treat me exact the way we are discussing... Everyone ignores the fact that I did it because I saw a life, and LGBTQ life, saved by this choice.. I stuck with it when i saw a second life saved later. I am so passionate about my choice after seeing these lives saved that no matter how much the mob yells at me I wont back down.. because being unpopular to save LGBTQ lives is a good trade off for me.}

Here is the catch though, now I am the target of very similar abuse that the LGBTQ phase... all the legitimate nazis are out there attacking me and shunning me for daring to care about the LGBTQ community and stand up for them. At the same time the very LGBTQ community I have commit to help is imaging dog whistles that dont exist and lumping me in with the Nazis....

So consider the position I'm in.. I have a choice... I choose to be popular with the LGBTQ community at the cost of seeing the death of people I could have saved... I choose to be a nazi and wind up popular with that group.. or I choose the moral high ground and do what I know and have seen to be right but accept everyone on both sides hating me for imagined nonsense. Luckily I care about doing what is right, and I always will... A lesser person wouldnt, a lesser person would choose to let the LGBTQ community burn just so they could have a friend and not be under constant assault... Is their choice right? No... but it is the choice most people will make.

@doot @probgoblin

@andrewt

This seems like a huge leap in reasoning... it is not an exceptional clause, it is a qualifying clause.. that is, a clause which **explains** a thing, rather than providing an **exception** to a thing. This clause **explains** that outside of derogatory speech unpopular opinions that are not derogatory wont get you in trouble. I do agree this clause shouldnt be neccesary but sadly a large portion of admins are fairly abusive with how they block and so, it is.

@doot

@andrewt

I realize I didnt fully answer your question in my last response...

So I assume by "the trans debate" you mean people debating if trans people are "valid"? So your suggesting that isnt derogatory speech but is a simple difference of opinion not falling under derogatory speech? I dunno, that is shocking, personally I think it is quite clear that would fall under the first clause as hate-speech/derogatory-speech... not that would not get an exception..

So what is not derogatory speech but is unpopular? How about debate over if QOTO is a good actor or not? The last week we got about I dunno 80 new users who were banned from their home instances simply for saying somerthing like "I dont see any prejudice coming from QOTO".. bam, their banned.. for... an... unpopular opinion.

Now i want to be clear there is a reason we have that clause in QOTO and not int he UFoI, theUFoI governs other instances. Therefore if some instance wants to make a rule making some sort of unpopular non-derogatory speech against the rules, they can. So that clause simply makes no sense... At qoto however as long as you are respectful, kind, and not derogatory towards marginalized people simply saying 'Windows phones are great" (an unpopular opinion) wont get you banned.

@doot

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Qoto Mastodon

QOTO: Question Others to Teach Ourselves
An inclusive, Academic Freedom, instance
All cultures welcome.
Hate speech and harassment strictly forbidden.