People in first world countries are dying from measles in 2018.


@Surasanji The anti-waxxers are a real epidemic. What you see in Israel now I know very well from European countries like Italy or Germany. Just here the repercussion in the media is higher, probably because of the size of the country.

@kjr I can understand the older woman in her 80s getting and dying from measles. I don't know her full medical history. She might have had a bad immune system for one reason or another.

But that 18 month old baby? Shouldn't have happened. We have a fantastic health care system here. There is literally NO REASON why people should be dying from measles in our country. Zero.

Anti-vaxxers fill me with a great deal of anger.

The last time I heard about a measles outbreak in the US I think it was Disneyland and something life half those who got it were vaccinated, half not, nobody died. I'm curious when a person's vaccination status seems irrelevant to catching it.

@SecondJon @kjr There have been over 2,000 cases in Israel this year. Almost every one of them starting or traced to communities that are not, or are under vaccinated.

That's a lot of cases! I'm clearly not a medical doctor. How does it spread to vaccinated people?

@SecondJon @kjr I couldn't tell you for sure, but I'm going to assume that a vaccine doesn't confer 100% immunity just because you got it. I know that even vaccinated some diseases can spread, although the rate of infection is a lot lower.

The vaccines work best when everyone takes them and there is a herd immunity.

@Surasanji @SecondJon what I know about it is that, at least for some diseases, there is a low % of people for which the vaccine doesn't work. Causes might be different, I know the case of Hepatitis A and B, in one case after the first attempt the patient made a test and the result was that no antibody had been produced. After the second vaccination attempt the vaccine worked only for Hepatitis A, but not B. Only one case between more than 100 people in this clinic.
I suppose that for other diseases it can be similar.

@Surasanji @SecondJon
As Dave said "The vaccines work best when everyone takes them and there is a herd immunity."
That is the best practice.

I know the talking point, just looking for the data behind the talking point.

I looked it up yesterday and found a site that takes on anti Vax taking points, and their big highlight was something like "if you can't catch it, you can't spread it"... Another good sound byte, but I don't think it's accurate. I've seen some vaccinations that I've had say that by being vaccinated you could become a carrier without "catching" the disease...and as you mentioned, the vaccine doesn't protect everyone who has it.

My frustration with the discussion around this is that both sides seem to have 2 strategies : 1. Talking points that don't a appear to have solid backing and 2. Appeal to emotion in telling everyone to be afraid of the other side.

Like in political discussions, I wish we could all be less hysterical and more reasonable.


I'm not sure whether I understand or totally agree. The positions in defense of the vaccination have a solid backing, just that it is in terms of statistical significance (like almost everything in the life) and with a very high correlation between variables like "percentage of population vaccinated"/"spread of the disease", or "vaccination"/"probability of getting infected". Of course, statistical significance doesn't mean 100% accuracy never.

@kjr @SecondJon

Unless one is medically unable to be vaccinated, being vaccinated is better than not being vaccinated.

At least, when it comes to things like the MMR vaccine. It's a trusted and tried vaccine.

I'm sure there are 'questions' regarding other vaccines, and I'm not well informed on every possible vaccine and it's potential side effects.

All of that being said, vaccines- on the whole- are a good thing and people who refuse to vaccinate their children are, in my opinion, committing an act of negligence. I can promise you that vaccines do NOT cause Autism, as Autism is a genetic.

So, in short: If you can't be vaccinated for medical reasons you have a legitimate reason to remain un-vaccinated. If you DON'T have a medical reason and you choose not to vaccinate your children you are causing them potential harm.

Last I heard the cause of autism was not nailed down yet. Happy to know progress has made, narrowing it down to generics alone.

I wonder how soon selective abortion will be for kids with autism the way it is for downs in some places today.

Agreed that parents introduce risks to their kids. As a parent this is a daily realization. There are many risks of unhealth, danger, even death ; certainly some more statistically relevant than measles, some less.

Parenting is not for the faint of heart.

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