People in first world countries are dying from measles in 2018.

PEOPLE. ARE. DYING. FROM. MEASLES. IN. TWO. THOUSAND. EIGHTEEN.

@Surasanji The anti-waxxers are a real epidemic. What you see in Israel now I know very well from European countries like Italy or Germany. Just here the repercussion in the media is higher, probably because of the size of the country.

@kjr I can understand the older woman in her 80s getting and dying from measles. I don't know her full medical history. She might have had a bad immune system for one reason or another.

But that 18 month old baby? Shouldn't have happened. We have a fantastic health care system here. There is literally NO REASON why people should be dying from measles in our country. Zero.

Anti-vaxxers fill me with a great deal of anger.

@Surasanji
The last time I heard about a measles outbreak in the US I think it was Disneyland and something life half those who got it were vaccinated, half not, nobody died. I'm curious when a person's vaccination status seems irrelevant to catching it.
@kjr

@SecondJon @kjr There have been over 2,000 cases in Israel this year. Almost every one of them starting or traced to communities that are not, or are under vaccinated.

@Surasanji
That's a lot of cases! I'm clearly not a medical doctor. How does it spread to vaccinated people?
@kjr

@SecondJon @kjr I couldn't tell you for sure, but I'm going to assume that a vaccine doesn't confer 100% immunity just because you got it. I know that even vaccinated some diseases can spread, although the rate of infection is a lot lower.

The vaccines work best when everyone takes them and there is a herd immunity.

@Surasanji @SecondJon what I know about it is that, at least for some diseases, there is a low % of people for which the vaccine doesn't work. Causes might be different, I know the case of Hepatitis A and B, in one case after the first attempt the patient made a test and the result was that no antibody had been produced. After the second vaccination attempt the vaccine worked only for Hepatitis A, but not B. Only one case between more than 100 people in this clinic.
I suppose that for other diseases it can be similar.

@Surasanji @SecondJon
As Dave said "The vaccines work best when everyone takes them and there is a herd immunity."
That is the best practice.

@kjr
I know the talking point, just looking for the data behind the talking point.

I looked it up yesterday and found a site that takes on anti Vax taking points, and their big highlight was something like "if you can't catch it, you can't spread it"... Another good sound byte, but I don't think it's accurate. I've seen some vaccinations that I've had say that by being vaccinated you could become a carrier without "catching" the disease...and as you mentioned, the vaccine doesn't protect everyone who has it.

My frustration with the discussion around this is that both sides seem to have 2 strategies : 1. Talking points that don't a appear to have solid backing and 2. Appeal to emotion in telling everyone to be afraid of the other side.

Like in political discussions, I wish we could all be less hysterical and more reasonable.
@Surasanji

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@SecondJon
I'm not sure whether I understand or totally agree. The positions in defense of the vaccination have a solid backing, just that it is in terms of statistical significance (like almost everything in the life) and with a very high correlation between variables like "percentage of population vaccinated"/"spread of the disease", or "vaccination"/"probability of getting infected". Of course, statistical significance doesn't mean 100% accuracy never.
@Surasanji

@kjr @SecondJon

Unless one is medically unable to be vaccinated, being vaccinated is better than not being vaccinated.

At least, when it comes to things like the MMR vaccine. It's a trusted and tried vaccine.

I'm sure there are 'questions' regarding other vaccines, and I'm not well informed on every possible vaccine and it's potential side effects.

All of that being said, vaccines- on the whole- are a good thing and people who refuse to vaccinate their children are, in my opinion, committing an act of negligence. I can promise you that vaccines do NOT cause Autism, as Autism is a genetic.

So, in short: If you can't be vaccinated for medical reasons you have a legitimate reason to remain un-vaccinated. If you DON'T have a medical reason and you choose not to vaccinate your children you are causing them potential harm.

@Surasanji
Last I heard the cause of autism was not nailed down yet. Happy to know progress has made, narrowing it down to generics alone.

I wonder how soon selective abortion will be for kids with autism the way it is for downs in some places today.

Agreed that parents introduce risks to their kids. As a parent this is a daily realization. There are many risks of unhealth, danger, even death ; certainly some more statistically relevant than measles, some less.

Parenting is not for the faint of heart.
@kjr

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QOTO Mastodon

Welcome to the QOTO instance

QOTO: Question Others, Teach Others

A Mastodon instance for scholars in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) and all yearning to learn.

A free speech space. No censorship here.
We do not silence or block any instances.


Unique Features
  • Inline math Latex support - Use \ ( and \ ) for inline LaTeX, and \ [ and \ ] for display mode.
  • 65,535 character limit for toots (usually 500)
  • 65,535 character limit for profile bio (usually 160)
  • Full text searches - usually you can only search hashtags and usernames
  • Halcyon / Twitter clone front-end - Want the interface to look exactly like the Twitter interface? After you signed up just go here to login: https://halcyon.qoto.org.
  • PeerTube - We host our own PeerTube server with open registration for up to 100MB, but all of our active users get unlimited quotas. Sign up here: https://video.qoto.org.
  • Professionally hosted with nightly backups
  • light modern theme with full width columns (not fixed)
  • Several extra themes - including mastodon default and mastodon default with full width columns (not fixed)

Message to New Members

Welcome to the Qoto Mastodon instance, its like twitter but better!

Please don't hesitate to Direct Message me or tag me in Toots (what we call tweets here) if you have any questions or even if you just want to chat.

If you are new to Mastodon you may want to check out this official getting started guide: https://github.com/tootsuite/documentation/blob/master/Using-Mastodon/User-guide.md

We are a free speech, no censorship zone. Feel free to talk about whatever you want, say whatever you want, as long as it is legal you wont ever get banned from the server. With that said we do have a few rules: No spam, and no using multiple accounts to circumvent personal bans.

This server isnt a typical mastodon server either. I have personally modified the code on this server to give it several unique features you wont find on other servers.

If you are new to Mastodon here is some useful info.

First off, if your coming from Twitter and you'd prefer an interface that looks exactly like twitter, then just go here and login with your Qoto credential: https://halcyon.qoto.org/ No need to create an account there, your account on this server will work just fine. Just enter your username in the following format @[username]@qoto.org so for me it would be @freemo But personally I think our default skin here is way better.

Basically Mastodon is a decentralized twitter. That means anyone can run a server (like Qoto) that people can sign up to and use just like twitter. The unique part is how the servers talk to each other.

If you want to tag someone on the same server as you then you can just do @user however if you want to specify someone on a different server you can do @user@server. If someone follows you or mentions you on any server on the internet you'll get notified right here. So my full tag is @freemo@qoto.org.

So now a bit about the timelines, there are three (unlike twitter there is just one): Home, Local, Federated.

The Home timeline is just like what you'd expect on twitter, that is, everyone you are following.

The local timeline is any post made by anyone on your local server.

The federated timeline is what is cool. It combines the timeline of everyone on the server into one. This way you can see the posts of everyone that is followed by anyone on the server (assuming the post is public). So this timeline is a close representation of everyone on the internet who has Mastadon (though not really). Moreover we have a bot here that goes around and federates with everyone it can find, so our Federated Feed is rather robust covering thousands of instances.

Only other thing that is unique is listed vs unlisted posts. You have normal privacy settings like on twitter but you also can set a post to be listed or unlisted. If it is listed it acts just as i described. If it is unlisted then it acts just as a normal tweet would but it doesnt show up on local or federated timelines anywhere.

Also this goes without saying, but don't be racist, sexist, hateful, and don't harass people. Its a pretty shitty thing to do, don't be shitty!

The following is the list of QOTO administrators/moderators.
  • @freemo@qoto.org
  • @absolutus@qoto.org
  • @arteteco@qoto.org
  • @Surasanji@qoto.org
  • @hashtaggrammar@qoto.org
Note: The account @QOTO@qoto.org listed as the administrator is NOT an actively monitored account. It was selected so as not to show favoritism among our moderator group, we are a democracy and even our administrators and moderators are held to the same high standards of decency as the rest of the community.

***We will never advertise on QOTO or sell your information to third-parties***