@swiley (Also, while PoS may be less _directly_ environmentally damaging, it is still built on the tenets of capitalism, with ever more given to those who already have more than enough) @WAHa_06x36

@pettter @WAHa_06x36 I'm all ears for a functioning alternative to capitalism.

@swiley There's a whole bunch, as it turns out! Both to specific practises within capitalism and to the system as a whole. Socialism is probably the most well-explored set of variants, though anarchism of various flavours also has been tried at various points.

I'm a bit wary of going into specifics without talking definitions, empiricism, caveats etc.

And I would start off by questioning how well you see capitalism "functioning" at the moment? @WAHa_06x36

@swiley Also, this doesn't even go into various types of highly functioning advanced societies that are far beyond the labels "socialism" and "anarchism" thanks to predating both and having been largely erased by western historiography. @WAHa_06x36

@pettter @WAHa_06x36 Can you point to a country where either of these ideas have resulted in a lasting situation that's pleasant and safe for most people? (especially workers.)

@swiley Cuba is probably the best example, but Vietnam is also pretty good, as far as I understand.

Could you point to a country where capitalism has led to a lasting situation that's pleasant and safe for most people, especially workers?

@swiley But to be clear, the idea(ls) of socialism has consistently led to tangible improvements for workers, through socialized health care and education, worker safety laws, unionization and worker involvement in decision making and salary setting etc.

The idea(ls) of capitalism consistenly hasn't, since it relies on workers being available for exploitation. Less money to the poor, less resources for safety etc etc.