A Concerned Scientist @BE@qoto.org

@MaksiSanctum

Thank you for sharing. I don't see a viable endgame unless the effects are not as long lasting as they seem, and even with that rather large "unless" it would seemingly require everyone being healthy enough to recover. That doesn't seem to be in the cards anytime soon, at least.

@bespacific

The places I look each day to see how it's going for people are r/COVID19positive and r/COVIDlonghaulers on reddit and #LongCOVID here. I used to do the same hashtag on the bird site. It's not a deep dive, but, I find a daily look at each to be a good reminder of where we are right now.

I'll leave it at that for now. I just needed to put this down somewhere, probably to help me wrap my own head around it. I'm surrounded by what I think that I clearly see as cognitive dissonance. In the midst of a global pandemic how can you be constantly sick, but think the two are unrelated? How can you think that they might be related, but still do nothing about it?

And, again, I really wonder....is it just me? Do I know a lot of people who seem adversely affected, and have gone from extremely healthy to very unhealthy over the last year or two while other people don't? Or is this what everyone is seeing, but, somehow not reacting to?

Lately I kick all of this around in my head wondering what the end game is, but, perhaps I'm asking the wrong questions because I read a lot of scientific studies and apply what I'm reading to the world around me, and in the end my experiences aren't what everyone else is seeing?

One more case in my little anecdotal study here, for now. My wife's boss. She, thankfully, seems to see the problems. Recently she allowed my wife to skip a "mandatory" in person meeting(we both work from home, and I have worked from home since ~2015 when I stepped out of the lab) when my wife said she was still being COVID cautious. Her response was that she wished she had been because she was recovering from her 5th infection and after her 4th she developed "a mysterious autoimmune disorder" that her doctor was having a hard time figuring out. She realizes that it was likely COVID, but, still takes very few precautions.

Another friend of mine is a really smart scientific mind. He's a science teacher and decided early on that he was going to go through whatever happened while in the classroom. I don't know exactly how many COVID infections he's had, let's just call it multiple. Neither him, his wife, nor their two kids can get healthy at this point. He's missed over 50% of his work days this semester, his kids are never able to go to daycare or school, and it's just one infection after another. The flu, croup, RSV, colds, COVID, etc. In his own words he just "can't get healthy. It's like my immune system doesn't work anymore" but he, also, believes it has nothing to do with COVID. Not that he has an explanation, but, clearly not COVID in his mind.

My wife's friend, also a teacher, has had an almost identical experience. Without belaboring the point, she is sick all of the time. Sadly, her little kid, now 2, has spent half of her life constantly sick. Just last week she was telling my wife that all she wanted was for them to be healthy for 2 weeks. Just 2 weeks and maybe they could have a good Christmas. They haven't managed 2 weeks once this semester. So what happened? This morning she was practically sobbing to my wife that they're sick, again, and she's far too sick to make it in to teach today.

My wife's best friend since they were kids is clearly the lucky one here. She locked herself down for two years, never went anywhere without a mask and then at the beginning of this year just decided to be done with all of that. She's travelled around the country to weddings and restaurants and swears she's as healthy as ever and never even got sick this year. I take her at her word.

My best friend, on the other hand, also was extremely cautious for a couple of years and then decided he was over it early this year. He's a veteran and hasn't missed his morning run, rain, sleet or snow, for decades....until he got COVID. Afterward he physically couldn't any longer. All of his joints hurt. He was diagnosed with autoimmune, or rheumatoid, arthritis. Now, if you ask him COVID has absolutely nothing to do with it. It was just a coincidence, and, again, I'm not here to argue that. I'm talking strictly anecdotal experiences here.

First up, my father. He's in his 70's, so some decline isn't unexpected. However, he's always been a very active person with a sharp mind. In his own words, since his 2nd COVID infection recently, he's "not up to much of anything" physically, and has absolutely crushing brain fog. I don't know if I've ever known someone who's read as many books as he has, but, he just can't at this point.

Continuing with family, my wife's parents. My mother in-law was never the healthiest person. It's hard to tease out her longterm issues from her more recent, but, cognitively she never had issues until recently. Now she's basically exactly what you see in the movies when they're trying to show you that someone's begging the decent into dementia. My father in-law had zero health issues until this year and now has cancer. COVID related from T-cell issues or not at all related there's no way to tell.

I'd like to share some generic info about the people we are closest to and what I'm really curious about is:

Is our experience unusual? Are you seeing something similar?

All anecdotal, of course. I'm not looking for a scientific, case study on the people around you. Just, generally, is this the way the world is now?

I'm a scientist. I think accordingly I like numbers and stats. Those stats are often hard to come by during things like a pandemic, because science is often slow.

So, while I read a lot of studies and journals about what's going on in the world, one of the first things I did as I realized what *could* be happening was to start reading personal accounts wherever I could. One of the places that I keep in my mind daily is the long haulers sub on reddit. Every day I remind myself about the human toll by reading their, often jarringly, personal takes.

In that vain, I've been thinking a lot lately about the people I know and care for. My wife and I have never kept a very large social circle. It's just not the type of people we are. But, we have some family nearby and a handful of friends and coworkers with whom we keep in touch.

@dcjohnson

I briefly got excited when I saw this last night only to settle right back down into exactly that thought.

@aintist @bethsawin

What you said is largely spot on and I don't want to diminish it, especially because I have no idea if you're in the US or not. People are testing far less, making wastewater a more reliable indicator(even if different variants may show up in different amounts in wastewater so comparing variant to variant is probably not a good idea). Here, too, doctors aren't doing COVID tests anymore, no matter the symptoms. It's all designed to keep it out of sight so it will be out of mind.

But, if you are in the US, it just goes to show how few people, even those making a real effort to stay up to date, know that you can report at home tests now to the NIH:

https://makemytestcount.org

@yaneerbaryam

So glad you added your note at the end of that post. I have a hard time taking them seriously ever since they started pretending we weren't in a health crisis.

@White_Bite

To take it one step further, many of the academics that I know are very specialized, but still somehow believe that they understand everything about everything. Yes, they've achieved a lot in their given area, but there's an overconfidence that often comes along with that, as well, I believe.

@White_Bite

One of the real failures of over-specialization.

@lolonurse @luckytran

I hate that it's come to this, but, everyone's on their own these days, so, we throw on a mask and just tell everyone who gets too close that "the whole family's really sick." They back right off. We live in a heavily right wing area and actually had the police called on my wife once just for having on a mask(a story for another day).

UPS needed a signature the other day. Asked him through the door if he'd just scribble something on it(usually works), but he said no. Put on a mask and coughed as I opened the door while saying "Everyone's so sick" and he put the package down and ran away.

@pixplz @yaneerbaryam @barbaracassani

I wish you and your spouse all the best in whatever's next for you, and thank you for your service in schools.

My wife left the public school classroom a couple of years ago after over 15 years and all of her former colleagues who stayed are continually sick, their kids are suffering and by in large they can't figure out why. It's tragic to watch. What's going on is not sustainable, you are correct.

@mackayim2022 @PieterPeach

I'm unclear what it is, exactly, that you're looking for. Google "COVID immune dysregulation" and go through some of the studies. I think the lack of naive T and B cells is pretty important.

Honestly, a lot of it is above my biology knowledge pretty frequently, but @fitterhappierAJ and @LeonardiBot are pretty helpful at explaining it and what the possible repercussions might be. So far many of Dr Leonardi's projections from 2020 have been pretty spot on.

@neroden @7soulshine7

I think this is probably the safest answer, and so I thought I'd just add that the study to look into this starts in January, so there's not going to be any real hard numbers about this at this point I don't think.

https://solvecfs.org/recover-study-of-paxlovid-to-treat-long-covid-begins-january-2023-has-implications-for-me-cfs/

@VPS_Reports@kolektiva.social
@chelming

In our local school district those types showed up to every school board meeting this past year and shouted the board down. They threatened them outside of the meetings, as well.

Eventually by election time they ran a candidate in each of the three openings(one seat only open because the former board member refused to keep dealing with it) with candidates who said that "CRT" and "no masks" were their platform.

Only one of them won, but, at the same time....one of them won....