@HelenBranswell Next question: were any farms that sold raw milk tested? Just a thought. I thought that was illegal though, so wouldn't all farms "say" they don't sell raw milk?
@Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell Good question. Saw an interesting post earlier about an NPR Reporter trying to get raw milk tested. #H5N1 #HPAI https://zeroes.ca/@SARS2PA/112451384803259216
@deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell I'd love for health reporters across the country to repeat the NPR test and take raw milk samples to local authorized test labs to get the samples tested for H5N1.
This is a story which absolutely demands actual investigative journalism, because right now, the journalism isn't much more than "The USDA said today."
@Infoseepage @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell
A quick look into it shows that there's 58 labs approved to do the test, they all have phone numbers and mailing addresses listed. There's really no reason for NPR to wander into one with a sample without checking ahead of time. Generally there's SOPs that need to be followed and COCs that need to be filled out. That's a poor way to go about it, honestly. No one wants to lose their accreditation over a rando wandering in with an unknown sample that probably wasn't even collected properly.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/labs/nahln/approved-labs/iav-a
In EPA certified water testing, for example, if someone walked into a lab with a sample you couldn't test it. You'd have to give them a sheet that explained how to properly collect the sample and ask them to come back after they did it properly and signed off on a COC that they did so. Testing it without that could lead to losing your accreditation.
@BE @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell Great, so you slam down a sealed jug on their front desk and say "I'd like this properly sampled and tested."
@Infoseepage @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell
Or, pick up the phone and say, "Hey, I'm driving down to Texas and I'd like to drop off some raw milk samples with you at the end of the day for testing" and not waste your time.
Not that you can't walk in, but, most labs get most of their samples in the mail anyway. They'd probably even give you a proper sample bottle, with the proper stabilizing agents, or whatever the SOP requires, so that you can collect and mail it to them.
@BE @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell We basically are in a situation where the government isn't aggressively seeking their data on their own and has been denying the development of third party tests by limiting testing to official approved labs and then the approved labs refuse to test as well.
@BE @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell That in and of itself is a HUGE story. It is data avoidance and institutional suppression at the beginning of what could be a high consequence human pandemic, one in which the lack of aggressive US containment action may play a significant role.
The US absolutely lambasted China for it's early handling of Covid, but are we any better? Doesn't look like it.
@BE @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell And I remember some of this stuff going on with the US at the beginning of Covid as well, where they were limiting the development of tests (no tests, no cases!) and then UW Virology said fuck it and just went ahead and made one and started processing samples anyways. It forced the government to change course. That was desirable then and it is desirable now.
@Infoseepage @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell
Alright, I caved and looked it up. The COC requires a Veterinary license number to run "NAHLN-approved PCR testing: FluA matrix, H5"
"Samples are to be collected by an accredited veterinarian, or a state licensed veterinarian, or a sample collector approved by the appropriate state animal health official. Designated individuals on production sites can be trained to collect milk samples and nasal swab samples for diagnostic
testing."
"Samples must be collected under the supervision of a licensed or accredited veterinarian or as
determined by the respective State Animal Health Official."
While I don't see anything about the farm needing to approve, the COC does require a "PREMISES ID" which I assume you wouldn't know off hand.
It also requires the "Animal ID", species, breed, sex and age of the cow.
Running it without all of that info could, conceivably, risk that lab's accreditation. I wouldn't doubt that there might be a lab willing to do it, but, that would require a reported calling their way through all 58 trying to find someone willing.
@BE @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell The effect then is to exert significant pressure on the labs to not test without the farmer themselves calling in a veterinarian, which they are incredibly reluctant to do. The US government has created a situation where farms with sick cows have ever reason to avoid scrutiny and hassle.
@BE @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell Instead, we should be creating a system where farm workers can NARC on their bosses, submit samples themselves and receive a significant award if a new herd is revealed.
Farmers should be compensated for their animals and the whole herd destroyed.
We have huge excess dairy production capacity in this country. If we don't nip this in the bud, much worse things could happen then a bunch of culled cows.
@Infoseepage @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell
I don't disagree at all that in a situation like this, it's less than ideal. However, it's not just for H5N1 that they have to have a trained sample collector and/or veterinarian.
I pulled up a few of the labs and their submission details. They all require veterinarians, premises ID's, etc. for *all* types of tests of milk.
Here's a representative one that's not hard to read:
http://vdl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/PriceList/TestForms/vdl-milk-submission-form.pdf
@BE @deewani @Nonya_Bidniss @HelenBranswell But part of the point of the reporter doing this way is to get an official statement from the lab. If they refuse to test, why? In this case, the lab refused to test without the farm's permission, even though such permission is not required, something they also got on the record. The point is to exert journalistic pressure for more data to be released and in a timely manner.