No, you are not 'antisemitic' if you don't agree with what the right wing warmongering Israeli government is doing in #Gaza. Nor are you pro-Hamas if you care about Palestinians not being treated like subhuman and killed by the thousands. Nor are you anti-American if you don't agree with the hypocrisy of the US government's double speak. You are simply using your judgement to see through the enormous propaganda machine and trying to think like a human of the 21st century.
@65dBnoise Have you been accused of antisemitism? If so, please link to the actual conversation so we can see if you said something horrible that you are asking us to blindly accept your defense of, or whether we can join your public indignation over having been falsely accused.
I have seen too many contextless claims like this from people who are called out on actual antisemitism (e.g. "JEWS OWN THE MEDIA AND CONGRESS!") and get huffy about it. So supply context, please.
@richard_merren @65dBnoise Not me or OP, but here's one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilhan_Omar#Remarks_on_AIPAC_and_American_support_for_Israel
I disagree with Omar on essentially every overton-window question, but it has to be ok to talk about money in politics.
@richard_merren @65dBnoise Or again with Tlaib and the "river to the sea" thing.
Naively believing that a single state one-vote-per-person will work out well for everyone doesn't make you an antisemite.
All this stumbling over each other to be as outraged as possible about things like these is probably not helpful.
@richard_merren @65dBnoise The phrase is also used in good faith, though. roll with it.
I don't call for "river to the sea" because I believe it will end in disaster, but I recognize good faith in those who disagree with me.
I am not pretending antisemitism isn't widespread, I don't think anyone said that.
@ech @65dBnoise I would never, ever tell someone to "just roll with it" on a phrase that they have told me was long associated with ethnic cleansing of their family and friends. This is the slogan Hamas uses, and has always been associated with their goal of wiping Jews off the map. A few weeks ago the Hamas murdered my kids' camp counselor, and is currently trying to kill their cousins, and you think i'm going to "roll with it" with their catchphrase? What is the matter with you?
@richard_merren @ech
From the get go it appears that ad hominem attacks is your preferred mode of arguing. Please refrain from doing it. You've been warned.
Being the subject of the original post, one would expect that #warcrimes committed by the #Israeli army in #Gaza following the atrocities of #Hamas earlier which triggered the war, ~20k Palestinians killed, most of whom children and civilians, and the annihilation of Gaza, would be worth mentioning. At least once, in passing.
@65dBnoise @ech "You've been warned"? What are you threatening me with here?
And I haven't thrown out a single ad hominem attack. You just don't like being disagreed with. Get off your high horse.
As for your whataboutism: the original post was you complaining about being accused of antisemitism. And we tried talking about that, but you don't want to back up your straw man claim that too many people are calling other people antisemitic.
@65dBnoise @ech And you should note that I did not accuse you of saying anything antisemitic at all. You got huffy because I asked you what charges of antisemitism you were complaining about and you launched into insulting English teacher correction mode instead of giving any concrete examples of what drove you to complain.
@richard_merren @ech
My original and consequent posts argued against conflating war actions by the Israeli government/army with antisemitism, which is indeed a constant threat for Jews all over the world. I argued that conflating antisemitism with war actions and #warcrimes by #Israel, increases antisemitism and advances right wing agendas which are inherently antisemitic.
@richard_merren @65dBnoise Point is, the catchphrase isn't just Hamas's. They use it in their charter, but the slogan is older than that and used by others with very different intentions.
I'm sorry for your loss.
@ech @65dBnoise The point is NOT that others use it with very different intentions. The point is that this slogan, both from Hamas as well as from the older uses, was a call for ethnically cleansing all Jews and eliminating Israel's existence. Yes, some people use it without bad intentions, but the same is true of "states rights" or "white lives matter". I would NEVER ask a black person to stand under a banner that says either of those, or be insensitive enough to ask them to "roll with it."
@richard_merren @65dBnoise You're totally wrong about "states rights" too. Lots of people like small local government. It's possible to have that opinion and simultaneously condemn slavery. The phrase is used a lot in that other context.
@ech @65dBnoise You are incredibly ignorant about what words mean to people other than yourself. It's a very selfish and privileged attitude.
@ech @65dBnoise "River to the sea" is historically a call to wipe jews off the map. It is painful to hear for many Jews, and using it means many jews can't stand with you. If your goal is inclusion, avoid it.
But to your larger point: yes, there are many things you can say that are NOT antisemitic, and it is entirely possible to criticize Israel without using antisemitic tropes. If you do that, then good on you. But pretending that it isn't widespread is dishonest and denies reality.