@lanodan @nyx

When it comes to Blink's quasi-monopoly it is not a matter of antitrust, otherwise we would be in trouble with Linux kernel being everywhere.

We should just have public funded implementations of major standards including the whole Web and other important products and services like Linux kernel and Wikipedia.

@post @nyx Because Linux isn't anti-competitive and compared to Chrome it's not as much of a monopoly (like video game consoles, Steam Deck excluded, aren't based on Linux).

Oh and you know, Linux isn't a single organisation, in a way it's already anti-trusted.

@lanodan

Linux kernel is waaay more irreplaceable than Blink. There are basically no good alternatives to Linux kernel while Gecko and WebKit are pretty decent alternatives to Blink.

Linux kernel development is controlled by a so called benevolent dictator. Structurally it is an even worse situation than the Blink one, it just happen to be low enough in the stack not to affect end users much and being managed well *so far*, but once Linus Torvalds retire it would be pretty easy for the corporations that form the Linux Foundation to change its direction.

@post
>There are basically no good alternatives to Linux kernel

Then why isn't literally everything running Linux? Why is there {Free,Net,Open,…}BSD, Windows NT, Windows CE, MacOS, iOS, Nintendo Switch's Horizon, FreeRTOS, …

And sure Linux kernel has centralisation on Linus Torvalds for mainline (vendors love having their own forks) but one look at committers (see MAINTAINERS file), will tell that the actual development is decentralised.
Plus some quite essential userspace parts like libdrm, libglvnd, mesa, libinput, udev/evdev, … aren't managed by Linus Torvalds.

@lanodan

FYI Apple products all uses Darwin as kernel and it is meant for Apple products only.

Those are kernels but not alternatives to Linux: you can't say "I will move from Linux to...".

Too much software and hardware is based on Linux today.

If you don't want to use Blink, there are Gecko and WebKit.

A lot of people use Gecko or WebKit powered browsers today. How many use a BSD kernel instead of Linux? Can you really say BSD has broad enough scope like Linux and comparable to it feature-wise?

Torvalds has still too much power over something that has public interest.

Don't be hypocritical and admit that there is a centralization that you don't like and an even worse centralization that you like.

@post
>Don’t be hypocritical and admit that there is a centralization that you don’t like and an even worse centralization that you like.

That one I can agree on, but it's not a monopoly problem, nor is it a problem with torvalds, because he's very much not alone.

Linux is sadly the current best kernel *with* additional restrictions like being free software, but still compatibility with stuff like proprietary games (which all require x86_64-pc-linux-gnu).

And I know that if it weren't for proprietary games, I would use FreeBSD or NetBSD everywhere.

@lanodan

> That one I can agree on, but it's not a monopoly problem, nor is it a problem with torvalds, because he's very much not alone.

Torvalds has to take balanced decisions just like Google because Linux and Blink can just being forked if the need justify the huge effort. There is no difference here, you just have a bias, at this point don't tell me you believe the Linux Foundation is a no-profit org.

> And I know that if it weren't for proprietary games, I would use FreeBSD or NetBSD everywhere.

I was not talking about desktop computing, when I said Linux kernel is everywhere of course I meant servers, embedded devices, Internet and cloud infrastructures and so on.

In theory the right way is having the interface between kernels and the rest standardized and implemented by different kernels like Linux. So basically what we have with Web standards.

The fact that very important interfaces are not standardized like the Web doesn't mean it is not possible. If there was one implemented only by Linux, maybe some people would recognize that there is an even worse problem than current Blink quasi-monopoly.

@post
Router side of things: Cisco has IOS, Juniper is using a FreeBSD base, the rest is mostly consumer-level stuff or people using their own hardware (and using whatever software).

Handhelds / tablets: Nintendo has their own (Horizon), Microsoft has their own with the Surface, Apple has iOS.

Server side is a massive amount of Linux but it's a space where you're not going to move BSD out nor the bunch of proprietary OS used on them.
And server-side is one where Linux can be entirely replaced and because of binary-compatibility (linux doesn't breaks userspace) a transition to no linux anymore could happen pretty fast.