@Dice @deprecated As long as the R-number (that is to say how many people does one infected person infect) under 1.0, we're good.

@moth_ball @deprecated
You said no vaccine is 100% effective
The smallpox virus has be eradicated(other than some people who chose not to vax)
Therefore, we don't need a good vaccine to stop the virus spread.

Yet this vaccine is worse than just ''not 100% effective''
we know for a fact people who got it can spread the virus. So it's effectively useless from stopping people from dying
The spike protein in the original wuhan variant has long stopped existing, so the vaccine is useless against the variants

https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

@Dice @deprecated
>useless against variants
Nah, it has seemed quite effective against most variants even if the delta variant has raised concerns
>spreading virus means dying
Nope, despite sterile immunity not being achieved, the vaccination quite effectifely prevents the serious form of COVID-19 that kills people with ARDS. People whining about getting the covid after vaccination recover from it like it was "just the flu" in the vast majority of cases.

Even if infections are not quite leveled yet, the need for intensive care has continued to stay at a very low level here now that over 60% of the populace (mostly older than 30) have received the first dose and over 25% have received both.

Again I have no idea how it's going there, I just read the news and talk to people at the hospital where I work. Thank you friend.

@moth_ball @Dice @deprecated okay now explain the pcr test creator's comments on cycles and explain this video

If a vaccine is both safe and effective, infections and deaths go down. If a vaccine is safe but ineffective, it should not be affected much at all. If a vaccine is both unsafe and ineffective, you see these incidents go up.

While we're at it, explain that study that found from 2018-2020 the entire world's death total didn't go up when COVID hit, it saw a small dip in some months.

@coyote @Dice @deprecated
>video
TL;DW
>if a vaccine is safe and effective
Which it seems to be, as incindents are down despite loosening of restrictions.
>death total saw a dip
The global economy and movement of people was virtually ground to a halt as pre-emptive measure. That means a lot of other lethal things were out of reach as well on top of the virus. And yet we still had a lot of deaths to the point of our capital's biggest hospital having to dump bodies in mass graves at one point.

Not to mention that the official death numbers don't account for the true numbers happening in totalitarian states like USA, Russia and China. So in reality the number is quite a bit higher.

Really this conversation is just my experience against your skeptic content so I don't see much point

@moth_ball @Dice @coyote @deprecated uhm the number of cases went up in most places, while the number of death stayed the same. I kinda see it not being effective in stopping the spred of the virus.

This is my problem with the vaccine. If you're fully vaccinated, you'll still spread it. It's only merit is preventing serious cases as you said in (old) people with respiratory conditions (where most deaths were recorded)

Why do we need to vaccinate everyone? Why? If this vaccine is so special why not keep a stash for the 65+s. There's no need to waste it on the youth.

This brings me to my next point: the lockdowns are not needed anymore, because people at risk should have been sorted by now. There's no need to kill jobs anymore, unless.... that's what they want?