Good grief, the lack of consent or information for DNR notices is ridiculous
Do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation (DNACPR) decisions nhs.uk/conditions/do-not-attem

@antlerboy My wife is a doctor, and she spent time during her GP specialist trainiing working in an A&E department. DNR notices are often misunderstood. So is CPR, which is not the Hollywood push-on-their-chest-a-few-times-and-they-wake-up-fine-with-a-gasp that we see on TV.

Let's be clear here. CPR is horrific. It is a massive bodily invasion involving broken ribs, physical trauma, an utter lack of dignity and while if successful it might leave you alive, it might also leave you a vegetable if your brain was starved of oxygen for too long. If performed on your frail ninety-eight year old grandmother with dementia it might truly be a fate worse than death. Possibly followed not that long after (and yet much, much too long after) by actual death as a result of the trauma.

Doctors aren't going to give you a DNR because they can't be bothered. They're going to do it because they believe CPR in your case is wrong. In the vast majority of cases they're not going to make the decision to complete one, either you or your next of kin will.

The NHS struggles to find the language to explain it, but they exist and have the policies around them they do for a good reason, and that reason isn't that the doctors caring for you can't be bothered.

@VoxDei finally got a 'best interests meeting' and that revealed worst suspicions -the doctor making the decision knows nothing about his quality of life, and not enough about his health conditions, and is therefore literally not competent to make the decision.
You're right, of course, about serious CPR - but for me it's the canary in the coalmine.
Life decisions require knowledge of life (and medical conditions).

@antlerboy I apologise, I should have considered that your post might have been triggered by personal circumstances. You post so many wide-ranging things, I thought you'd just read something. Sincere apologies and whatever the situation is I'm sorry about that too. I hope things turn out as well as they can.

@VoxDei no, don't worry - it was very helpful! I apoloigise for coming back to you on it as if you were involved :-D
It really did help me to see that the DNR is not the problem (I agree with all the points about the damage that would be done), but it does point to a (difficult, hard to resolve, systemic) problem.

@VoxDei I should also say my Dad - in hospital for another rather mysterious/untracked-down infection, left overnight without liquids lead to other issues - should hopefully be out and back home on Thursday. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of it and keep him out of 'the system' (which, don't get me wrong, is often very helpful) for a bit longer :-)

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@antlerboy No problem all, I still definitely should have considered that that might have come from somewhere personal! I'm glad your Dad is OK - I know from experience that leaving hospitalised elderly people overnight without liquids can have consequences.

There are definitely a variety of problems with the system, I'm far from saying it's perfect! It's just that DNRs in particular are often misunderstood. It's an emotive topic.

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