Hi! I'm an #atheist #humanist and #skeptic looking to respectfully engage online here with people I disagree with. And maybe people who agree with me too!
I don't believe in #god , and in fact I'm pretty sure no such thing exists, but I'm willing to consider the alternatives and change my mind.
Are you a #christian who believes in #jesus , or any other #religion , and want to explore whether or not you have good reasons to think that it's true? I'm happy to have that conversation!
I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. Are you?
@lack Christian god: “You are evil, and you deserve to die.” Atheist: “No, -you- are evil and I think you don’t exist.”
@b_chocolatey I don't usually use the "problem of evil" argument, but when I do it's not me saying "I think God exists and is evil so I don't want it to exist", but more of a "If I temporarily assume that God exists for the sake of argument, I find this contradiction which suggests the initial idea (that a loving and powerful God exists) is incorrect".
I think this is a common misunderstanding of how the argument is supposed to work, made worse by atheists who maybe don't explain it well :)
@lack yes but Christianity already has a built-in explanation for the problem of evil - saying that it is our fault, not god’s. The Christian religion makes it a problem that we are not “good enough”.
@b_chocolatey
Yes, there are many different ways to try to respond to the problem of evil.
One way is to claim that evil is our fault, and somehow the "good" that comes from us being free enough to do evil outweighs the evil that we actually do. This doesn't help with kinds of evil known as "natural evil" like animal predation or natural disasters, though.
Another is to claim that the evil we see around is actually part of a greater good somewhere in the future, so it's actually okay, or even "good" in a way.
I'm not sure I find those responses satisfying when I dig into them, but regardless, the "problem of evil" isn't a big part of why I'm an atheist. It just happens that the problem goes away entirely if you assume the universe is indifferent :)
@lack ok. I’m only interested in debating the problem of evil if that is the reason why you are atheist, the reason why atheism is considered reasonable and convincing by atheists. All other arguments for atheism seem to be arguments for agnosticism or deism at most; or a refutation targeted against one religion in particular (“Mohammad was a illiterate pedo!”)
@b_chocolatey In an academic context, "arguments for atheism" are usually arguments against what's known as "the God of Classical Theism" or some variant of monotheism. If that's not what you believe, I can see why those arguments aren't relevant to you.
Maybe you can help me understand more about what you actually believe in; that way we can make sure you're not bringing up arguments that I'm not making, and I won't bring up arguments that aren't relevant to you :)
@lack okay. In order to be an “atheist” as I understand it, you have to 1. Disbelieve in any possible historical persons with paranormal powers, who could walk on water, etc. 2. Disbelieve in the existence of any invisible-and-immortal entity that could will the dead back to life, etc, even without a human representative, outside intervention 3. Disbelieve in any possible creator who determined the natural laws of physics, wished for the universe to emerge from emptiness or from primal chaos
