Francesco 🍁 @fra@qoto.org

@lbreda *prova* `menzione`

@manfroze _prova_ menzione

@freemo
I'm challenging your claim on the word "most", on either sides.

@freemo
You said you couldn't give me examples from your experience, but here you are telling me that you've met extremists yelling at tacos.

"Such form" was in your example, not in my reasoning, therefore that gap is not in my logic.

@freemo
Human rights are not "feelings", you can't "perceive" a violation. They are well defined on the basis of facts (historical and verifiable) and ratified by the law. Violations can be detected just as any other crime can be, i.e. on the basis of facts, never feelings. Reasonable doubts will be explored in debate (or in court), but in the meanwhile facts stay facts. You don't perceive them: you find them.

@freemo
Again it is as possible for me as it is for anyone else. No one is immune, but then again anyone can address the issue and try to mend it. You tried, I can try just as much. Try to assume I'm privileged enough to share the same perspective that you have. If I'm not, your arguments will see my bluff. No need to appeal to prejudices, when one's confident enough.

@freemo
You're assuming that being opinionated or being an activist is a cause for (or a consequence of) "joining an ideology". I don't think they are.

I agree with you that the moment you "join" anything you submit yourself to certain social mechanisms, since you are engaging in a group activity and you have to comply to a certain degree of conformity.

That's very different from just "being leftist/liberal", therefore that meme doesn't fully apply, not under those terms. It was funny as a simplification. But we tend to rely too much on simplifications. Better explain them every time we can.

@freemo
Well, it depends on how (and how much better than me or anybody else) you can detect hints of truth. I was assuming (for the sake of argument, since we don't know each other) that both of us are just as much capable of skepticism and fact-checking.
How can you tell that a person who's willing to discriminate other people is not really a racist/fascist? How can you tell that a leftist who complains about them is lying? I can't, and I don't think you can, but I'm open to surprises.

@freemo
I'd also like someone to point out what I got wrong in my long toot.

@freemo
I'd really like to hear stories about "leftist" extremists and their exaggerations and disrespectful acts: since they're on my side, I'm interested in addressing this violent acts and try to put and end to them. As I told you, I have not experienced them, so I need help in this.

@freemo
That's exactly what I tried to say. Half of this meme is wrong, the half I'm in, for the reasons exposed.

Actually...one half and a bit: the normal person butterfly is on the fair side too 😋

@freemo
(nice meme, tho :-P)

@freemo
Not in my experience. Normal persons spot fascists. That's how we came to define normality (civility) in the XX century. Most importantly normal persons, in normal situations, know their interlocutor: they are no strangers, they can see beyond their words and they can tell genuine questions from alibis. There's no extremism in defending human rights, while the causes of opposing them are well known (the call for cooperation demands a leap of faith in your neighbors' help against your fears, and that's hard; the call for respect demands the sacrifice of affinities, conventions, traditions, whims, vulnerability, comfort zone, and that's hard).

This conflict arises from thus hardness of the challenge against violence (the shock we endured after WW2); it is so unfair and so wrong to make it just a matter of difference in opinions.

Inside ourselves are not only strong, inalienable opinions and preferences; there's most importantly something volatile and delicate we've crafted as a species for hundreds of thousands of years: a meaning to give to our existence, the reason to wake up in the morning, to keep working during the day, to take care of our health. It's something that didn't exist in nature, and it takes a lot to keep it being, because the mindless cosmos will always threaten it. This thing inside ourself needs to be nurtured, it needs to be addressed, it needs to change and evolve because it's not strong, it will never be stable and self-sufficient, it can never be inalienable, because it is not an opinion, it is not individual: it's our communal duty against the universe that doesn't want us. It's life. Either you accept it and fight, or you side with the storm and eventually pass.