@mtomczak It shouldn't be that way. Killing your abuser, even premeditated, should be considered ipso facto self-defense. @holyramenempire @SocialistStan @mcnado
@FinalOverdrive @holyramenempire @SocialistStan@kolektiva.social @mcnado
How does one address the Hatfield and McCoy problem? Someone executes a premeditated killing of their abuser, then someone who loved that person kills the person who killed them, and so on until the next thing you know you got two entire families trying to take each other apart.
I don't have a good solution for this. The bad solution is to vest that kind of violence in the state and the process of determination of facts of a legal case. There's a lot of room for improvement to that solution, but it must be done carefully last we introduce a cure worse than the problem.
@mtomczak You simply treat the abuser's family as accessories and warn them that any action taken against the survivor will be treated as identical with the abuser themselves. @holyramenempire @SocialistStan @mcnado
@FinalOverdrive @holyramenempire @SocialistStan@kolektiva.social @mcnado "But Your Honor, the perpetrator of the murder was in fact the abuser. My sibling told me this on many occasions."
It evolves to he said she said, and if we already don't expect the judicial system to protect the abused, I don't think we expected to protect their right to premeditated killing of an abuser.
So unfortunately, it still all comes back to "If the system is broken, you're taking more risks by killing them than not killing them."
@mtomczak
Then barring a revolution the problem is insoluble. Every relationship is basically just a chance to be abused, so you're better off not being in one.
@holyramenempire @SocialistStan @mcnado
@FinalOverdrive @holyramenempire @SocialistStan@kolektiva.social @mcnado Sadly, I don't particularly expect a revolution to solve the problem. I think nobody's figured out how to balance intimate vulnerability with protection in all cases. :( Most of the solutions I can think of (panopticon sousveillance, AI overlords) are way worse than the disease.
I'm not saying it's an unsolvable problem; I do firmly believe at this time it's a problem stubbornly insoluble by systemic solutions. Rules we can come up with are, no pun intended, abusable.
Abuse is a problem likely best solved by groups, families, and making sure nobody is alone. I have no idea how to do that for everyone, all the time, in the large; I just try to make sure it's done for people I can see.
@mtomczak
In other words, it's a systemic system of oppression that, at this stage, we are permanently stuck with.
@holyramenempire @SocialistStan @mcnado
@FinalOverdrive @holyramenempire @SocialistStan@kolektiva.social @mcnado Until we can come up with a better solution that isn't weaponized by abusers to further tighten the noose.
Some problems aren't solved yet because they are actually very hard to solve (without sacrificing something else dear to us).
@mtomczak
Or may be unsolvable at this stage.
@holyramenempire @SocialistStan @mcnado
@FinalOverdrive @holyramenempire @SocialistStan@kolektiva.social @mcnado FWIW, I feel this pain. I have a relative who was gunned down in a mass shooting. Add "Getting Americans to consider the possibility that the Second Amendment (and its current interpretation) is doing more harm than good" to the pile of hard problems to solve; my position is hated by (broadly) mainstream America *and* by leftists who think I want them disarmed against the fascists.
@mtomczak
I'm one of those leftists. Too bad. We're going to have to live with the guns in order to be able to hold fascists at bay. Civil society was always a polite fiction in a society founded on genocide and slavery. We're just abandoning the polite fiction. It's always been a war zone for everyone who wasn't a middle class white. This is just reality setting in.
@holyramenempire @SocialistStan @mcnado
@FinalOverdrive @holyramenempire @SocialistStan@kolektiva.social @mcnado
> live with the guns
Indeed, that's the question isn't it; that's not what guns are for. Not that I can say you're wrong.
@mtomczak
Like it or not, gun control was always, at best, utopian and at worse historically about taking guns away from everyone except cis het white men. My suggestion is close the gun and militia gap. The right wing is basically cowardly. Being armed and ready against them and it not just being for show might be sufficient deterrent.
@holyramenempire @SocialistStan @mcnado