Olives @olives@qoto.org

Think of the children shills: We want you to adopt this measure which will never stand up in court and which has already been ruled to be unlawful in previous cases. If you don't, you are a bad person.

One time when I saw "parental controls" in action, it was by very controlling anti-LGBT helicopter parents harassing their LGBT child.

I'm actually still in favor of just entirely scrapping chat control. It creates an authoritarian state apparatus (which still wouldn't make the problem go away). For truly malicious sites, it seems that efforts to take them down have been ramping up for years. It is also all too easy for the censorship to expand or for there to be collateral censorship.

On another note, it's interesting how the shills in favor of it are interested in *literally no middle ground*. They take on the most extreme positions and argue hard that it is the only correct position.

So-called "zero tolerance" positions are not necessarily good. Even web proxies seem to have been hit in 2022.

"What has the AfD done to stop chat control? To the contrary: the negotiator of your ID group has always spoken out strongly IN FAVOUR of the proposal."

I've seen one AfD in the E.U. Parliament speaking out in opposition to it in public but then that is one person. She is also very conspiratorial.

Also, I don't think someone needs the AfD to get someone with that position.

There is also already quite an unpleasant stigma around mental disabilities... I'm not really happy when someone brings them up as a scapegoat...

This is honestly horrifying, though it isn't surprising as DeSantis was also calling for drug smugglers to be shot and killed...

Simply locking more people up is not the answer to mental health... It also seems that it wouldn't have the benefits that he expects.

I feel like I'm trapped in Hell with how these stupid authoritarian ideas keep getting advanced...

It's annoying when someone only talks about "reducing risk", even as such attempts have negative impacts on fairly good people.

I've covered this a couple of times, but I never went into how creepy and opportunistic it was for IJM (International Justice Mission) to show up during #chatcontrol. As you might expect from a religious group (accused of having a history of exaggerating rates of sex trafficking (1) and being anti sex work) trying to get a foot in the door, they tried to conflate legitimate content with abuse (2).

For instance, they wanted to treat things like "written text" as "child porn". In practice, this would mean censoring things like stories written by victims / survivors (preferred term varies), literature, roleplay, fantasy, and so on. It also appears to have therapeutic value.

They also pointed to a "terminology guideline", which seems to really be a puritanical propaganda doc (a hideously out of touch one) intended to encourage countries to adopt extreme and harmful definitions (i.e. child not meaning an actual real child), which would be harmful (3,4). It's one of the most sinister things I've seen.

1 https://www.engadget.com/2019-05-31-sex-lies-and-surveillance-fosta-privacy.html
2 https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/12726-Fighting-child-sexual-abuse-detection-removal-and-reporting-of-illegal-content-online/F3337815_en
3 https://qoto.org/@olives/111083302650803082
4 https://qoto.org/@olives/111192296198968801

https://qoto.org/@olives/111321512784243641 The new paper linking a lack of independent activity without monitoring / control to depression / suicidal ideation might be of interest to the #chatcontrol crowd.

https://edri.org/our-work/eu-cyber-resilience-act-harm-open-source-software-competitiveness/ This is interesting.

https://reason.com/2023/10/30/desantis-wants-to-reduce-mass-shootings-by-locking-more-people-in-mental-hospitals/

"In the wake of a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, that killed 18 people, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has called for more involuntary institutionalization."

"Yet involuntary institutionalization isn't likely to help either. Indeed, making it easier to toss people into mental institutions against their will raises even greater concerns for due process."

""A 2017 task force report on the involuntary referrals of children under Florida's Baker Act found that one-third of them were not necessary," according to a recent article by Kaitlin Gibbs of the University of Florida Levin College of Law. "Many children are Baker Acted more than once, which shows the initial Baker Act may not have successfully treated children with mental illness. At least thirty percent of all children Baker Acted will have a repeat Baker Act within five years.""

"Nor is throwing people into mental wards likely to reduce the number of mass shootings. As Ragy Girgis, a clinical psychiatrist at Columbia University, wrote in 2022, "Serious mental illness—specifically psychosis—is not a key factor in most mass shootings or other types of mass murder." And while 25 percent of mass shootings "are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression," he notes that "in most cases these conditions are incidental.""

"If DeSantis' plan were enacted, the likely result would be a rapid increase in the unnecessary institutionalization of mentally ill individuals—and a negligible impact on criminal violence. If taking people's guns is a violation of their rights, forcing them into a mental facility surely is too."

"volume" "frequency" Any measures would be very burdensome for a provider (and could even be used in a harassing manner on a flimsy basis).

Even more so when there are multiple layers of providers involved, as this can incur great technical obstacles.

That's sort of a guardrail, though not a perfect one.