now i'm thinking about problems they had when trying to run worker's collectives in the early days of the Soviet Union.
what they discovered is that factory workers were keen to participate in top-level meetings at first, but they started getting bored with them, and eventually, only a small group would show up for the meetings.
those people became the management.
basically, a company structure emerged organically, despite best efforts to eliminate the hierarchy.
@lore the fact people find this surprising is absurd to me. Kindergarten children understand social structure instinctively.
@ned i think the way you must think to understand the socialist mindset is this:
"we know that's what people tend to do. but we don't like it, so we want to fix it."
@lore @ned it wouldn't be so bad if it was just that; they usually also huff a bunch of copium and declare that all of humanity's shortcomings are in fact social adaptations to capitalism and were you to eliminate it we'd all happily altruistically cooperate holding hands under a smiling sun with nobody trying to take an advantage of anybody…
@Amikke @lore the way people use the word "capitalism" is so stupid. In practice in amounts to nothing more than the freedom to trade something I have for whatever I deem to be an acceptable price.