ugh. searching "how do I do xdotool type stuff with wayland" and one of the first results is "No, such features were explicitly excluded from the Wayland design for security reasons."
@foone For us it's xrandr.
Fuck Wayland, until they make it actually funcional, which will never happen because that's by design.
@Amikke @foone I don't fucking care about "the scope of the protocol".
If you break things, leave no room to reimplement them, and then go "well that's by design!", then yes, it IS your fault.
Extensions to X work because X is UNDERNEATH the individual desktop environments.
Extensions to Wayland do not work because you'd need to get EVERY SINGLE DE to agree. (And have you seen Gnome? Yeah.)
@Amikke @foone The window manager should not have to care about things like modelines.
It's a window manager. It manages windows.
Let us set custom modelines, let us scale the screen, without going through the desktop environment, because literally NO DE provides tools for this. Not even KDE.
And then there's foone's xdotool situation.
@IceWolf @foone yeah, let’s all continue to use an eldritch abomination of a server and protocol to run all WMs, using more extensions than years since it went into maintenance mode so that it can at least pretend to function like a modern compositor, just because some DEs haven’t yet fully agreed on protocols outside its scope.
Why stop there, let’s force everyone to write programs to run under some shitty pre-defined runtime from the ’80s because heavens forbid some may have different APIs and certainly won’t agree on them ever.
@Amikke "There is a future without needing to use X11" and "Wayland shouldn't have to be the way forward for everyone" can both be true.
@bersl2 Sure. But with the *nix focus on modularity instead of a giant overarching server, the thing we’d end up with would be wayland with a mustache and a fake nose. Cutting out everything except the protocol between the “server” that displays windows and “client” windows is the correct approach, leaving the server implementation and everything else modular. Restricting the ability for one program to snoop on another requiring building up other APIs (as protocol extensions or otherwise) for that is also correct imo.
This doesn’t mean that we can’t have a unified server module using common APIs for things traditionally handled by X and its extensions either, a lot of wayland compositors are built on wlroots and alike, which is functionally the equivalent of leaving everything except the WM and compositing to the common server, like in X. The only thing we lose is time required to adapt to this new standard and build up the ecosystem of protocol extensions and tools we’ve grown used to.
@Amikke @foone Like I said, the thing about X is it's underneath the individual DEs and they don't have to care. The DEs SHOULD NOT HAVE to agree on protocols for things like xrandr and xdotool, because that's /not their job./
[Frost, just block them. This is going nowhere.]
Okay.