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@jens The whole thread is good, thanks for it. I react here (though I was triggered several times already):

> so what's the choice for them

Here's a proper psych theory about the dynamics you describe: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_

Keywords: Karpman drama triangle, co-dependency, emotional abuse

There is a way out of the triangle and it is by refusing to participate in the dynamics. I experienced it as an "escape through the centre" of the triangle. There are smart articles and youtube videos on this just a google search away.

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