🇳🇱
@Liberty4Masses Not sure thats entierly true for everything. We see plenty of counter examples to that. Even though the government provides roads there are some remote towns who have no dedicated road to get there, or the road access is very limited. IF this were true even in the current government people would pay for and buy roads where the current infrastructure happened to be insufficient. Yet We have no cases that I know of of anyone volunteering their own money to build a road. They just rely on the government and if they dont do it they accept the inadequate access and leave it alone.
The truth is a reasonable system seeks to minimize, to the extreme, what governments buy, I agree there. But to assume that should be 100% voluntary is an extremist standpoint I wouldnt agree with.
@freemo have you considered that perhaps the fact absolutely no one has built a road to a remote town in the middle of nowhere is because it isn’t important to do so? https://liberdon.com/@Liberty4Masses/102526320279116534 lol
@Liberty4Masses Yes I've considered it. I'd say its pretty damn important. Afterall if someone in said town has a medical emergency good luck getting them to a hospital in time if your stuck using horses or hiking through the woods. I'd say thats all sorts of important.
I mean sure we could argue that the big corps might build roads to transport some goods to major city centers at best. But then again they will probably also fortify those roads so others cant use them by designing them specifically for their own transportation equipment. So what few roads might get built likely still arent going to be too useful to most people. Despite their huge importance no matter how you dice it.
@freemo @Liberty4Masses who built roads before govt?
@yaakosine
They didnt, there were no cars so roads (in the sense of being able to support traffic from cars) have never existed outside of government. There were foot paths and later horse paths. But thats not the same as a road in the modern sense.
I mean hell before governments people would stand a decent chance of dying on any long venture.
@yaakosine
Oh right the colonies, they were also worried about starving to death each winter too, and yet still never developed any sort of a national highway network.
The point is highway networks are both an order of magnitude more expensive and requires national coordination to be done effectively.
No no one before government has ever built a national highway system anywhere near the level of financial investment needed. A few dirt paths prior to even the invention of cars.
In fact most "roads" in the colonies were just worn out paths formed by people walking it often enough.
@freemo
Dude. Remember who fucking built a railway in US. And google about land development business in Australia. They build roads right now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_development
P.s. 2/3 of Sweden's roads are private.
@yaakosine @Liberty4Masses
The first National Railway int he US? The US government through an act of congress. It was calle dthe PAcific Railroad and was funded and coordinated through three acts of congress called the Pacific Railroad acts of the mid 1800s
Prior to that attempts at private companies to create railways were disasterous and limited linking on short distances, had numerous safety issues, and due to lack of planning often convoluted and inefficient routes. Which ultimately led to why congress chose to fund the acts in the first place, as there was a strong need for a transcontinental railway and private interests were failing to produce one.
@freemo
How did you get a degree?
@yaakosine @Liberty4Masses
@freemo @yaakosine @Liberty4Masses
I don't see how someone can get a degree with that lack of understanding the formal logic. How is there really something whole society needs if no one thinks so? You do understand that an entrepreneur's ultimate goal is satisfying society's needs for profit, correct? How is that a global need, if no one wants to produce it? I think, what you are doing here is confusing, either consciously or unconsciously, needs of the society with those of the State.
I got it through years of study, and demonstration of expertise through my accomplishments.
You seem to be lacking some reading comprehension skills. I never once suggested there was no need, in fact, I made it clear there was one. The reason we didnt have an transcontinental railroad until after congress created one was simple: The privatetized efforts were disorganized and uncoordinated. They attempted many efforts at long-distance railroads. But ultimately these efforts failed not due to lack of public demand but due to poorly implemented systems. Each local company optimized their network locally for their own gain without througt for how it might effect their neighboring system and thus interconnect with them efficiently.
Simply put, the need was there, and attempts were made to satisfy that need, but since each interest was local there was a lack of good coordination between them, and thus it failed.
@freemo
Well, I trust, you have anything to back it up? About failed attempts of building a transcontinental railroad?
@yaakosine @Liberty4Masses
Yup, sure do. When I have some time ill gather the links to some books for you that go into details on the history and the earlier failed attempts. Luckily there is a lot of literature on this stuff.
@freemo
Great Northern Railway was built with no government intervention.
Which means that market somehow just made it. How come? A transcontinental road, just a bit later. What coordinated those companies? What helped them to solve all the described problems, eh?
@yaakosine @Liberty4Masses
There are always exceptions to every rule. In this case it happened to be John Hill a Billionaire with enough money at the time to provide the unifying national-level vision needed to connect a railway across large distances.
As I said, generally where the railroads were coordinated by many smaller instances (the case with literally every other rail system in the USA) these ventures failed to produce viable transcontinental rails. The difference is that in the GNR there was a single owner, John Hill, thus being able to provide the coordination at a national level that you'd normally get from a government. Keep in mind we are talking about the great north, an area that generally has a much lower population so there was also no significant competing rail companies in the area to throw a wrench in things. Which is why this is a rather unique occurance and not at all the norm in the rest of the USA.
You really should try reading up on the topic. These questions have already been answered by experts in countless books over the years.
Here is a good introductory book to help introduce you to a lot of the basics. It addresses some of the questions you asked:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/American-Railroads-Nationalization-Dick-Roberts/dp/0873486005
@freemo
No, thanks, dude, not after such a "doctor" failed at formal logic.
Keep your "every rule has an exception" attitude. There is a law and that law says: something is either true or false. That alone.
No exceptions.
I hope you do a great job and don't fail anyone at even more important projects.
P.S. also, try being a little sceptical instead of believing a book that clearly says that a monopoly is good on its very cover.
See ya,
Your child like behavior really doesnt lend me to seeing much of what you say as having any insight or value.
I usually put my confidence in people more mature than your average toddler.
@freemo
You are pathetic.
@yaakosine @Liberty4Masses
@pervertor @freemo @Liberty4Masses Also the cheapest to build and the cheapest to the tax payer. It was so competitive that subsidized railroads had to force Congress to force James J Hill's hand, implementing price fixing schemes to reduce his ability yo compete.
@pervertor @freemo @Liberty4Masses Got a link for "2/3 of Sweden's roads are private"? Curious how that compares with other nations too.
@freemo @Liberty4Masses bullshit
Only govt can pay contractors to lay asphalt? You need a history lesson. In the american colonies, colonists built roads largely with private funding (and private labor as today).
If people need it, they pay for it.
Interstate syst we have today is a direct result of the progressive idea that top down stimulus is required. That voting for a president brings prosperity. Bullshit.