I have been following this conversation for a while now:
https://qoto.org/@zeccano/103205964102778422
@freemo, problem is that @zeccano does not understand what "relative to" and the "frame of reference" are or mean.
Without understanding this, it's all total waste of time.
It's also painfully obvious, when you bring up the bus and the ball.
I am not sure why zeccano cant (or refuses) to understand that if I send you a photon, while we both move, I see it travelling in a straight line from me to you and you see the same.
Now, for someone OUTSIDE of our frame, the photon moves diagonally relative to his reference point.
Exactly what happens if I was standing on a bridge, looking down at the bus and those 2 kids towing a ball to each other.
This is where people screw up. They mix the frames of reference where events occur and where they are - outside of it.
It's like they refuse to understand you can have a frame inside a frame.
This is also causes the confusion about why the laws of physics remain the same in all inertial frames of reference.
@CCoinTradingIdeas @freemo
Your illustration involving a ball tossed between two people, will be seen as a diagonal when viewed from a differnet moving perspective.
But its not like this with light.
According to every physicist including einstein, Light is the only thing that is absolute, its own self is the ONLY absolute frame of reference, which is why light is invariably always c.
Because physicists are saying that lights frame is the preferred frame. (the only absolute frame)
So in your scenario you have done the impossible, you have set the observer who sees the diagonal as if he were in the absolute preferred frame of light!
He cannot be in that frame of reference. Its absolute.
The two guys trying to toss the ball between each other wont have any problem if its a ball, which gains the inertia of the guys, as the ball has mass it CAN gain the inertia of the guys, but light cant, as its without mass.
If you try to reverse it, and claim that the guys are not moving, they are just tossing the ball back and forth, its the observer that is moving past, so he will see the diagonal, then still it only can work for a ball, not light? Why? Because in this scenerio, with the moving observer, you now have him AND light in the same absolute frame, again its not possible.
Anyway, what are you going to do with Einstein and every other physicist who say flat out, that light is NOT dependent on the motion of the source?
So move the guy who tosses the photon or the guy trying to catch it, and they will NOT stay in the same frame as the photon, as my video shows.
You guys are talking around in circles, contracting your own claims with weak logic.
A photon has no mass, therefore no inertia and cant have any momentum, relativistic or not.
🇳🇱
No thats not what einstein or physicists say, just you.
Its easy to make things up when you dont even understand the basics...
Not to mention what you are claiming directly contradicts experimental results like everything you said. The Michelson–Morley experiment directly contradicts your claim.
@freemo @CCoinTradingIdeas
Einstein said the the speed of light remains constant irrespective of the motion of the source. Its a basic postulate of SR.
speed is motion is it not? motion can be forward or sideways, so if light is not affected by motion forward then it cant be affected by the motion in in any other direction can it?
If you say it CAN be affected by sideways motion, then this is ADDING speed to light speed.
This is impossible.
Unless you think that light slows down in the original direction as you turn the source to face another direction????
If a ball is moving east at a set speed, and I add force in the north direction, then the result will be a new velocity, a new direction and an increase in speed!
This is the problem with you not understanding basics, you dont even understand the words your reading..
The **speed** of light is a constant, no speed is not the same as meaning "motion", motion is a non technical word but in the way you are using it you are trying to imply the **direction** light travels is invarianet, that is not the case.
And yes light is effected in the forward direction, it is just that its **speed** isnt effected by it. Likewise light is effected int he sideway direction, yet again its **speed** is not
Also the the millionth time, the experimental evidence directly contradicts all the nonsense your spouting.
Funny how you keep ignoring the experiments, experiments you can do and see for yourself, but keep relying on your own fauly interpritionation of something you dont seem to understand.
BS. If you have speed, a measure of motion, then you have motion. speed is just a measure of motion. Last I heard light, a photon travels in a straight line, so yes its direction is invariant in a vacuum.
I did not say that lights speed is affected by changing its direction. Im saying that this is the only possibility if we believe your claims about light.That its able to be affected by the motion of the source, but only sideways, not in the direction of the photons travel. A weird non physical claim. Thats what you claimed.
You said that speed is motion. If that is the definition you want to use, then no speed/motion is not effected forward or sideways, the speed is always the same.
Only thing changing is the direction of the light, not ts speed/motion.
And again this is expermentally proven (and replicated by anyone who has bothered).
Remind me again what experiments you or anyone has ever conducted to confirm what you said? None, zero, yet plenty to contradict you.
@freemo @CCoinTradingIdeas
I did not say that speed IS motion. I said that speed is just the MEASUREMENT of motion.
If you have changed the direction of a moving object, then you have necessarily changed its motion, and as newtons third law indicates, if you add force too a moving object, (force requiring a mass in motion) to the motion of the first object having mass, then the first object must change direction and gain some portion of the second objects inertia.
So it will both change direction AND change speed.
So, if a photon has mass and it inherited any of the light sources inertia as you claim then the photon will simultaneously change direction as you claim BUT it must also increase speed!
Now here you are saying two opposite things about light.
As long as you insist that light has mass what I just describe MUST be correct according to physics.
You can go away now.
It has relativistic mass, it does not have rest mass. You are unable and unwilling to learn what that distinction means
I would happily teach you if you were trying to learn, but you are not. In fact you are actively working to remain ignorant. y/ou have made no attempt to learn or correct any of your previous erroneous statements despite being proven wrong in multiple ways, not the least of which being experimentation.
I just posted the math proof that for light, there is no difference at all between the rest mass and the relativistic mass. both are zero mass.
(because there is no such thing as gamma)
No you didnt
Still waiting for you to explain why all the experiments thousands of people around the world have all conducted disagree with every bit of nonsense you spout... I'll wait.
