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@matrix Its almost like living in a society that treats you unfairly, makes it harder to be financially successful, and causes you to be likely to be born into a life of poverty might possibly influence a persons perpencity towards crime.... who wulda thunk.
If you're talking about black people, you're right, but not in the way you intended: Beyond nonstop Affirmative Action and racial quotas to ensure that blacks have to put in far less effort than any other group to get into a good college or get a good job, they're actually less likely than White people to be shot by the police while unarmed, when you control for just how much more violent crime they commit.
Being black in America is Easy Mode, it's just that many blacks are so dysfunctional that they still manage to screw up their lives despite society bending over backwards to accommodate them.
Life skills are generational. When you make people slaves and then try to reverse course on that the lack of education will be passed down generation after generation.
To claim that they systemically have it easier, which I'm not saying is true but even if we assume it is, doesnt really make your case at all. Having it "easy" isnt going to reset the centuries of oppression whose effects will continue to be passed down for some time.
Its not about slavery. The overwhelming oppression of blacks lasted well beyond slavery. Even if you could argue direct racism is gone that isnt until very recent times at best (and you'd be wrong at even that).
Hol' up, you claimed that blacks were Failing because of the legacy of oppression, seeing how you couldn't actually provide a single example of actual, direct modern-day racial oppression/discrimination faced by blacks. The argument that blacks are Oppressed by the police is certainly bullshit. Meanwhile, there are countless ways modern-day blacks in the US enjoy preferential treatment, at the expense of White people (who do suffer constant ACTUAL, race-based discrimination).
Nope, wrong on all points and not at all what I said.
I said that the legacy of oppression does have an effect, but I never said I could not provide any modern day examples of racism. I did however claim that racism is not reduced to rights, if I shoot you in the face simply because I hate black people, that is racism, and it is still racism even if that black person has all the same rights as me.
This seems like a strange point for you to make, seeing how White-on-black crime is absolutely dwarfed by the amount of black-on-White crime happening in the West.
How so? 1) I never claimed blacks cant be or arent racist towards whites 2) not all race-on-other-race crime is automatically explicitly due to race and therefore a racist act.
If I shoot a black person in the face to steal his shoes then it isnt racism just because I'm white. If I do it simply because I hate back people then it is.
Sure, but whenever a White person commits a crime against a black person, the police and the media will obsessively search after evidence that this was racially motivated. Meanwhile, in the far more numerous instances where black people commit violent crime against White people, the racial aspect will be stubbornly ignored or even explained away. A White person could be murdered by a black man screaming "I hate White people!", and you'd get all sorts of "experts" trying to unpack his "true motives" and why they weren't actually related to race at all. Never mind that anti-White sentiment is very common among blacks, or that the current US culture is anti-White in general, and stoking black hatred towards White people in particular.
The bias in the media to ignore racism towards whites and exagerate it or assume it when towards blacks is very real. I wont argue that.
That still doesnt contradict my underlying argument however. It just means the media, as usual, is so monumentally bias you cant use it to discern anything useful about the situation. You actually have to bother analyzing the data yourself. When I do that the fact remains that blacks are very much the target of racism (though not the only target) and that this effects a lot of the problem. Just because it is far less exaggerated than the media likes you to think doesnt suddenly mean it is non-existant either.
Yet you don't cite actual examples of current, on-going structural "racism" against blacks, never mind sufficient evidence to show that the effects of anti-black racism outweigh pro-black racism.
"Yet you don't cite actual examples of current, on-going structural "racism" against blacks,"
Because I never claimed there was on-going structural racism towards blacks, so why would I need to demonstrate it.
In fact the only time i even used the word structural in this debate at all was to remind people that I didnt specify I was talking about structural racism and that I used the term "racism" without qualifiers intentionally so.
Keep in mind just because I didnt explicitly state there is institutional/structural racism does not imply I am saying there is none. I simply made no assertions on that point either way. So yes, feel free to hold me to the fact that I did not express my opinion on that point.
"Thank you, I'll certainly hold you to that. So if you understand you right, your claim is that the effects of all-encompassing structural pro-black preferential treatment are somehow nullified and even rendered vastly insufficient by vague, undefined "social" racism? "
No you do not understand me correctly, no I did not say that (or at least did not intend that to be the interpretation). Affirmative action is not "nullified" by social racism at all, or any form of racism. Its very nature, and even more so how it is implemented, makes it ineffective, even if there were a lack of racism, at addressing the problems we face. Since it does not have a positive effect on the problem then there is nothing to "nullify" to begin with.
Wait, so am I to take it that you oppose Affirmative Action and other forms of explicitly race-based preferential treatment for blacks?
Yes, I oppose affirmative action and race-based preferential treatment. I also explicitly stated so earlier in the thread already. Read first before slinging mud maybe?
Thank you, I'll certainly hold you to that. So if you understand you right, your claim is that the effects of all-encompassing structural pro-black preferential treatment are somehow nullified and even rendered vastly insufficient by vague, undefined "social" racism? Some White, Asian and Hispanic people justifiable having low opinions of blacks in general means that blacks are effective Oppressed even today? This basically amounts to saying that random people on the Fediverse using the nigger word is more impactful than Affirmative Action or multi-billion dollar Diversity initiatives.