@louisrcouture I'd agree with that. Co-ops can exist quite nicely in a capitalist society and is a much better approach that state-run corperations.

@louisrcouture @freemo
One can also start by breaking up M.A.N.G. and converting it to coops.

@mian

I am generally a huge fan of voluntary co-ops (not state enforced)... though int he case of healthcare I'd be ok with state enforced co-ops. I think co-ops are the true and best solution to the healthcare problem in both europe and america.

@louisrcouture

@freemo @mian @louisrcouture I'm a huge proponent of Credit Unions and Co-op banking. Too often i see nonsense like having to PAY for a savings account at one of the big banks (like Chase or Wells Fargo) and it just blows my mind. Especially in the age of internet banking and smartphones, there's never been a better time to switch to a Credit Union or Co-op Bank.

@freemo @louisrcouture @mian Seriously the first time I saw "monthly fees" for a saving or checking account, I thought someone was pulling my leg.

@mian @freemo yes but it should be not be too centralized and it should be left to regions to manage it the best way

@louisrcouture

Yea ideally it wont be centralized.. Which should happen naturally if there is a good free market system in place. One reason I love co-ops is because they dont destroy the free market, in fact they reinforce it by giving strength to the smaller players (the individuals)

@mian

@louisrcouture @freemo
I fail to see one good reason why we should cling to anything related to capitalism.
I work by this definition: capitalism = economical system where individuals are allowed to grab as many resources (natural, human labor etc.) as they can legally carry. And they can do that, since the richer one is, the more influential in shaping the said laws in their favor.

@cosas

Capitalism os simply the natural default. It is where people have freedom to engage with others in trade where both parties are free to negotiate and arrive at a mutually agreed price. Its the only system that allows me or anyone to jave fundamental freedom over what we have created or traded for ourselves.

We dont have to cling to it, it is what naturally occurs when no one else is trying to create a system where people are robbed of their own creations or property.

@louisrcouture

@freemo @louisrcouture
Natural cataclysms and animals killing each other by the dozens are also the natural default. We claim to be rational beings.
Free to negotiate? Fundamental freedom? So the Atlantic trade slaves, the people from the colonies, the billions of impoverished today--all these were/are poor negotiators. They do not create values, therefore do not deserve the fair exchange of goods and labor, right? Let the world burn, so some can pretend ethics is at best relative.

@cosas
Slavery isnt capitalism, in fact that would be the opposite of capitalism. Capitalism includes the freedom to own and sell your own labour in a free market. Slavery is therefore anti-capitalism.
@louisrcouture

@freemo @louisrcouture
Riiight...

@freemo @cosas and what you would say to someone (Not me) who would say that the workers who work in factory are just modern day slaves, because they are forced to work in order to survive

@louisrcouture
Isn't survival inherently a form of metaphysical slavery?
@freemo @cosas

@louisrcouture
I would say thats not slavery unless there is price fixing involved. You can say its u fair, thats a valid debate, but not slavery.
@cosas

@louisrcouture @freemo
Being forced to work in order to survive does not make one a slave. By this definition, we'd all be slaves.
Slavery means exploitation, chains or not. Even a parent can exploit his child, if he demands too much and offers too little.
Capitalism is exactly that. Demanding people work their lives away, receiving in turn only the bare minimum for subsistence. That's slavery with invisible chains.

@cosas
You seem to have a very incorrect view of capitalism. If people are exploited then it isnt a free market, that is the opposite of capitalism.
@louisrcouture

@cosas @freemo not all branch of capitalist ideologies believe in this. For example, georgians believe that you only own the value you produce, and rent derived from the land should be held in common and taxed