This is a war of propaganda. Brush up on your media literacy skills. Trace sources. Make sure what you’re spreading isn’t false. If you can’t verify it don’t post it. Please.
🇳🇱
@Miriamm I assure you as someone who can personally confirm it, most of what we heard is more or less true. Yes there is bias, media spin, and as always not the whole truth... but more or less the jist of hamas murdering civilians is entierly valid.
@freemo @Miriamm I think we can safely say that the following is true: Both sides commit atrocities.
Hamas killed soldiers, but they also deliberately targeted and murdered civilians.
Israel say they target terrorists and say the dead civilians are unfortunate collateral damage. To a dead civilian I don't think that distinction matters much.
However, if the attack came as a surprise, can we really trust the Israeli armed forces when they say they know where the military targets are?
Both sides are projecting, sure.
But only one side has a charter that says "extinction of the other side"... Their sole purpose and reason to exist are to kill everyone in Israel.
And somehow the Gaza people voted for that, sure a long time ago, but if you don't object to your leaders, then you are also partially responsible for what they do.
This Israeli is challenging everyone prove him wrong. Please, go at it; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNf40sBcvKk
> But only one side has a charter that says "extinction of the other side"
I assume you mean Israel?
> Their sole purpose and reason to exist are to kill everyone in Israel.
Oops nevermind.. Neither side wants the other to be killed off (except for a few really angry people). They do however want their land, The Israelis want the land they have had for.. about one generation. The Palestinians want the lang they have had for hundreds of generations.
It is no suprise (though no mirally justified) that the side that was there the longest, and have no had their home occupied for nearly a century, is becoming increasingly radicalized. Thats the consequence when you treat people as subhuman for long enough.
> The Arabs have consistently rejected the two State solution that has been proposed since 1897 or so.
> The Israeli haven't.
>
> End of moral high grounds.
It is their country, they were there and were invaded.. they are under no moral obligation to accept a 2 state solution. Jews were allowed freely in the palestinian state, there was a working one-state solution. Then the Jews wanted to steal the state fromt eh palestinians and think they have the moral high ground? They lost the moral high ground the second they invaded and started taking land.
@niclas @freemo @Miriamm @samuraikid You're wrong here. Even Hamas have been willing to accept a two state solution. Israel say in public they are for a two state solution, but their actions speak loudly. They build new settlements in occupied territory and dispel the people who lived there. United Nations has condemned this, just like they condemn terrorist attacks.
"Hamas have been willing to accept a two state solution"; Please enlighten me with a link to where that is stated officially. Thanks.
"Settlement on West Bank"; I agree, that is nasty play.
@niclas @freemo @Miriamm @samuraikid Hamas accepts Palestinian state with 1967 borders - Al Jazeera https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
And the other side view of this (the Hamas changes of their stated intentions) is; https://forward.com/opinion/564190/hamas-charter-truth/
Basically (paraphrased); "Hamas only changed the intention of destroying the jews to destroying the state of Israel (the Zionist project)."
The point in the article of Hamas funding from Qatar getting Netanyahu's support is a very interesting one.
Is it simply that all state actors want the keep the FEAR in the people to stay in power?
@niclas @freemo @Miriamm @samuraikid
As the first intifada wound down in 1993, the Oslo peace process started with secret talks between Israel and the PLO. Israel’s then prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, signed an agreement with Arafat aimed at fulfilling the “right of the Palestinian people to self-determination” although Rabin did not accept the principle of a Palestinian state.
@niclas @freemo @Miriamm @samuraikid
Among Israelis, the political charge against Oslo was led by future prime ministers Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu, who fronted rallies at which Rabin was portrayed as a Nazi. Rabin’s widow blamed the two men for her husband’s assassination by an ultranationalist Israeli in 1995.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/why-israel-palestine-conflict-history?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
And I kindly ask you to challenge the Isaeli guy in the video... He has a couple of very easy ones to prove wrong, if one listens to pro-Palestinian sources.
FTR; I am on neither side.
if the guy is in this thread ill be happy to talk to him... Otherwise i have little interest in a video. If you want to make a point from that video however I'm all ears.
@niclas @freemo @Miriamm @samuraikid
You are on neither side? 🤣🤣
You could have fooled me....
Why don't you challenge the video guy yourself if you're so obsessed with him?
"fooled you"; Sorry, that you are easily fooled, apparently not only by me.
"10 times more arabs"; Now you are entering the question of "where in history do you make the cut-off line?" Whatever date you pick, you will have massive problems around the world;
Turks going back to Central Asia?
Europeans and Africans in North and South America shipped back to their continents and demolish all their legacy?
@freemo
From Wikipedia;
<quote>
The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.
</quote>
The Arabs have consistently rejected the two State solution that has been proposed since 1897 or so.
The Israeli haven't.
End of moral high grounds.
@kjetil_kilhavn @Miriamm @samuraikid