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Hahaha, if this is an hourly worker and he isnt paying overtime this is a completely valid response :) lol
@freemo @georgetakei Nah, it's valid no matter what kind of worker they are. The idea that we should be emotionally loyal to employers is patently absurd.
Salaried employees are expected to make a fix amount no matter how much they are paid. That is the bargain.
@freemo @georgetakei That doesn't mean that they're obligated to have some sort of greater commitment to their job outside of their assigned duties.
Company loyalty is for suckers.
No one said anything about "greater commitment". Only that a salaried worker's job isnt a 9-5 job. They are expected to work longer hours when needed, sometimes do work after hours, and in exchange they get paid when they take off like vacations.
@freemo @georgetakei My dude, did you only read the comment of the OP and not what it was responding to?
Did you, no where in that quote image does it say anything about "greater commitment"
@freemo @georgetakei "I don't like that their commitment lasts for work hours only."
Implying he wishes they had more commitment.
Oh you meant greater than the commitment they currently have, or a greater commitment than they do to their personal life?
Ahh then yes it is saying that. And since a salaried employee person is expected to have commitment outside of standard hours, how do you know their current level of commitment is appropriate to that?
@freemo @georgetakei Other than potentially being on call, being salary does not obligate you to take work home with you.
By definition salary means you dont have fixed hours, yu work when your needed, including after hours. You dont get extra pay. The bargain is the reverse is true, when you dont work a day you still get paid.
@freemo @georgetakei sounds like you've drunk the capitalism kool-aid for too long.
@freemo @scott_guertin @georgetakei if long hours are standard, despite agreed business hours, not when needed with proper plan and staffing it's just legalized time theft.
Thats generally not the case for salary unless explicitly stated in a contract (in which case it isnt threft). Typically you are expected to work whatever hours are needed to finish your job on time, but you are also welcome to exchange that by working fewer hours during down time. Typically you are expected to average 40 hours a week, where some weeks might be 60 hours others may be 20.
@freemo @scott_guertin @georgetakei are you in one of the less predatory environments? Europe maybe? I'm watching the salaried workers around me get burned out regularly. Sometimes they don't even get past orientation before they realize what's going on and quit. Take, no give.
I have worked as an employee as well as been a C-level manager (usually CTO or CIO) in many countries including quite a few european countries, the middle east, and USA.
As I said, if salaried employees are being abused with really high overtime and not enough pay, then they negotiated a shitty contract. Lots of people self-sabotage and negotiate bad contracts for themselves. But thats on them. At every stage of my career I have always negotiated strongly and as a result I have never had these issues. I would generally negotiate very high salaries, work the overtime, and negotiated 3 month vacation blocks to oppose the overtime (which was my standard as a Sr. dev and team lead). In cases where I couldnt negotiate the vacation time I eitehr ensured to put time limits in my contract or if i felt i could handle the excessive work would negotiate very high salaries to make up for it.
When I hire people I always as the hiring manager make it a point to keep my workers to an average of 40 hour weeks just to keep them at their best. Overtime happens, but when it does its offset by extra down time.
@freemo @scott_guertin @georgetakei it's not the contracts. It's the bosses expecting the employees to accept mission creep. It's an every day fight with the bully taking your lunch money. You're tilting at windmills in this thread.
@freemo @georgetakei
Greater than the commitment they currently have.