"Christians seem to be waiting until their death to be rescued from their sins."
- @hazlin

Post https://shortstacksran.ch/objects/86bbaccf-6e6a-4cf3-9d3c-cf586cd3f46b

MY COMMENT:
It's enough to say that I'm not in for people just waiting to the end to be judged and rather be judged now on what their actions NOW (including what they don't do).

What people don't do is a big difference and often hidden kind of looking at things- what are people not doing (at all or a lot of)....

So while extreme panic is too much and unneeded, one can become ignorant in a half-doing sort of way, almost pretending to do but never finishing the job until the end (the dirty part to finally cleaning things).

One might be good but never doing these 'same things' is an avoidance I'm seeing and irresponsible way like waiting for God to do something about it instead of thinking "we are a part of God (or part of Cosmos or whatever we have a power given to determine and do) and it os simply up to us to create or heal things after thinking about the basics. (for example, should we sell / rent our body despite a system setup to get food that way and all the while cheapens all actions and meaning while doing so not to mention diluting the money by putting more debt into the total pool of money) ⬅️ and too many more things you just have to put above priority occasionally even above 100% a food supply because all else is being lost in the hands of Capitalists or non-players / non-doers).

There's something about doing nothing that seems to be of regular flavour of Christianity I have called.:

➡️ "Capitalist-Christianity"... ⬅️

where 💰( 🧀 etc) overrides priority even more than ✝️

Let that be a first for the term in #Religion until I hear otherwise!

#CapitalistChristianity
= #Capitalism first then #Christianity maybe last and not daily

Might re-do this post but seems about right.... thoughts welcome...

@freeschool
Hey there,

I'm not sure I fully grasp what you are trying to say.

I think you are saying that, the Christians are not doing enough. But, I'm not really sure which things you are claiming they aren't doing xD

And, isn't capitalism about trade? If the problem is that people doing nothing, and have nothing to trade. But, you are forced to give to them. That sounds like communism.

@hazlin
So it's a yes to Christians not doing enough or perhaps even for the active it would be more fair to say:

"not going far enough"
"not going the distance / completing on know problems"
" Not working on it daily "

Capitalism is based around it's basic form:

private ownership of capital

BUT evolved (changed) into something else... now what this "something else" is can remain flexible but will including the meaning of Capitalism changing to mean today a people of a certain command and control mentality (hierarchy / government gate formation ( supervisor of the supervisors style formation )

So Capitalism is far from just trade (which us amazingly wrong) and more about centralising power, extraction. profiteering, weakening others, more politics (which we can say in shortest that "we should rule them otherwise we lose our power / job of abusing those that pay us - wantingly or not)

The main gist was "people follow Capitalism more than their own religion"

And if you talk about anti-religious things (according to their logic) they are still not looking to making better ways than things like:

- renting themselves, expecting children to sell themselves in future

- doing things they really don't like to "live" or dis-respectful / without God or Good-will in their work

- don't tell children how banks and money scams / devalues them and so become rather complicit themselves (the basis of all life is becoming debt or loans mathematically / incorrectly given out based on what banks do not have to give - they can give x2-x9 loans from only 1 amount of money which is like loans even though you don't have it - again immortal / financially incorrect)

- people respect or put money before Jesus (or whatever teachings from whatever religion)

- they never look to improve what is wrong end up following and only fuelling the wrong (even if it keeps them alive which sometimes should be not rated so highly since staying alive with the above is very wrong)
- etc

That's a bit more around the problems I mean... there are too many basically to be wrong to judge since it's measurable in answers and my own life's asking... every person I've known almost apart from "Hi, bye" relationships

oh yeah add to list:
- "Hi, bye" relationships that #Christians (or any modern ways listed in this post)
This is almost enforce by not giving + not MAKING time to listen and just closing doors to MY family (separate families and false sense of "mine" or "you stay over there where lines are drawn) when it should be more OUR family(s).

@freeschool so true.

And, it is so very sad that no one wants to be family.

The most that many want is a sudo impersonal meeting box, both in location and time. They want it completely controlled and separated from the rest of their life.

Some even recognized how BAD that is, and talk about "gathering together like minded people, when everything falls apart".


But, even for those, very few, who do want something more. The spirits that people follow are extremely different. Even within the church. And, a discord in the voices a person listens to, leads to hostility between the individuals.

@hazlin I think it's hard for their level of experience, testing- the same as ours- where we might find it individually hard to team up with anyone and stick to it. Fediverse is better on the virtual social side but really crack nuts (breaking each other too somewhat and helping ourselves rebuild) is not an additional stress many want to take on or add to life.

I focus this paragraph on me you and say gabe + Fediverse as we're able and the inexperiences rest (or just those you can't be bold enough to communicate or find a way) will join in their own time (for now). And so that's my proposition that we crack nuts and you may choose from which.

If I were to ask first then I would ask "What is it you would like to see more of in the world" and my answer (as example) is more real talk together as a kind of training circle, lightly moderated by us 3 (taking turns and having our own meta chats about who joined and if it's serving them in the Jitsi chats well and basically creating somewhat "the good work" for us maybe once a week...

Something that you have wanted to solve or sort out - try name it or the words around.... Thanks

@freeschool

Even here on fedi, I have found people have a very low tolerance for confronting foundational lies, and replacing them with truth. There is a sort of in-between step. Where, you have to spend some time in uncertainty. And, few seems to be able to cross that gap.

And, more than that, once one sets foot on a course, they begin to accumulate facts, and are able to made defense that is more than acquit to protect the direction they want to travel.

---
A relationship based on the pursuit of truth, is a fragile thing, that only lasts for a short season. (at around 100% failure rate for me currently xD)

Relationships have to be built on something else, on shared joys. On enjoying things together. The unity must naturally create more unity.

And, cutting off lies, and applying the stinging medicine of truth, is a very hard and bitter thing. It does not create friendships. It is something that requires a strong friendship to attempt. And, even then it may break it.

---
I would say, the three of us, may not be able to train others. As, we have not come together to build something of our own accord. Starting something, to train others, to start something, feels like wrong footing the whole process entirely.

My gut says, that, trying to formally train people, to overcome a life time of indoctrination into countless layers of lies... is an utter waste of time. That this is not a hole that can be dug out of with reason.

Instead, there still exists the possibility to form a real true friendship with someone, but it is a matter of sincerity and honestly, and humility.

And, those are easy, and no one requires any training to do them. Little children use these things to create life long friendships all the time.

A man chooses these things based on the desire, the wants of his heart.

The tl;dr would perhaps be?
> We cannot train men to be treasure. But, if we have the courage, it is possible to find men who are a treasure.

@hazlin Well said - just confirms I've found treasure here...

Usually it's the 'let's do it for the others that helps them get together with a few people to lead - but I'd be happy to assume it wouldn't be possible and nobody would show up - so it would be just us and work from that... something much more controllable and quality too.

Wonderfully you captured what it is about truth "It does not create friendships." so I suggest we knowingly proceed to any business we can do (stuff we can be busy-with and increment) to explore something together like talking on the regular once a week... ?

Treasure both needs finding and occasionally polishing when it comes to us as a person. (so both is the reply to your training me to be treasure and courage all round is needed to polish what is essentially ourselves as "another" part of God or Cosmos, almost like fragments we are putting back together)

@hazlin First instincts

➡️ it sounds like you are like the others in reply - some points but finding problems more than of working on positives

That's the TL;DR - you might not need to read more if you agree with that... read it again

Below just explains it but I think I might stop explaining soon because

➡️ nothing like yea let's do it is there / "ok let's test it" / ok I'm not sure but...

so while allowing a warm up time here and now - just saying you're maybe the same as them - but a bit better in some other things like communication, some principles...

➡️ and at end almost made up some reason based on me talking a lot more and finding / tying it together... fun... eating cake... becoming an ideal... Nothing that springs to life positive.

That might be a case of being around uncreative people too long and not being able to test things.

And if you don't do practically, you die (Christianity inculded though yes no need panic about that) and so that's in our religon / practise, in y/our biology that acting is to grow not just save because if you don't grow a bit it stagnates and gets cancer / "our work" helps stop the killing by others in understanding or even physically etc... so you become the same in not doing and also allowing further dying (of brain cells or physically which is similar), although you are more well said, perhaps even too polite to save people (with their consent or however you feel ok about this) AND turning my words as answering fun to enjoy understanding and yes even some healing or just anything other than capitalism also.
It seems you went off there on a tangent.

Through our being I think we should allow ourselves with measurable safety (including each other and being transparent on the net) to do.

No ultimatum here but I strongly suggest you have enough theory side, and don't get stuck in it.

Further theorising again over this if it sounded good at the start has questions on your side that "even if it was agreeable would I even do it or just virtualise some previous reasons"

Unwanted Loneliness also from your actions (Ubuntu works in reverse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_philosophy)

Because many Christians might feel lonely from others who seem to sound like you also with "who are you to heal / to say / to do / empty your life / need others in this saving way" etc etc and our innate / embedded being and existence already covers the why for each other (or go back to Capitalism for "not needing anyone:") and ONLY we need getting better at doing rather than feeling something about people trying.

By your way it's "what's next?" - "what did they syuggest"... "nothing much"... oh ok then...

Getting better is part of the main idea (people do that themselves WITH others - paradoxically as that is - we are limited alone healing / understanding things).

Tell me you already know this or don't pretend !

Consider the people who are alone or who closed themselves are not just the result of their own principles not wanting friends but that it's usually with totally ignorant others (everywhere) as a lot of the population not being aligned and insisting not to learn - meaning you can't blame any loner and expect them to fake around ignorant others to get some attention from such extreme amplitude of ignorance in all parts of their life or yours)

Sounds like you're not for trying / seeing positives or found some other experiences or templates to put me in as if I haven't written quite a lot to say otherwise "I'm kind of ok!".

I think you could say to yourself "well actually this is mostly not the typical average volume or type of Christian or they are a different kind of person so let us try something here first without me judging too much more...".

Fun means too many things and you put that there not me ad twisted it. Do the good work or find endless excuses I think is about right - without sounding as ultimatum but a lot said so you also put yourself out of the game without testing and stuck in too much text.

All those phrases are nice, but just checking things you're not sure of as you go rather than stopping things totally at the begging is better. Good gosh embrace it all a bit more yes yes without being all you said!

If you're a loner and don't see the point or joy in others (cake as you falsely compare it too) then write than in your bio. Christians and general should stay active while keeping things in check THEY CAN'T NOT DO THINGS MOSTLY - THAT'S HOW WE GO HERE.

Forgive me if your doing plenty.