It’s 2023 and I’m astonished that so many intelligent religious people still make the bogus argument “without a there is no ” (or priorities, or goals).

Just this last week, on the :

“Even the things you believe in, only make sense if there’s a God. The only leap of faith I ever took was to say: ‘it’s better to give a beggar bread than it is to torture a child to death’. You can’t make that case without God. That case, once you believe that, you believe in God.”

Andrew Klavan

“As Western civilization becomes increasingly individualistic and anti-religious, […] that bleeds over into a secular world that was living off sort of the fumes of a religious society. But as those fumes dissipate, you end up with: ‘what do I do this morning?’ ‘how do I get up?’ ‘what is the moral obligation?’ ‘what’s in it for me?’ […] What makes you do the thing you don’t want to do? […] It’s three o’clock in the morning, your kid took a dump and now you have to change the diaper: what makes you get up, as opposed to just turning over and saying: ‘you deal with it, I’m going back to sleep’?”

Ben Shapiro

One more, also very recent:

“You can’t have a moral order without some fundamental metaphysical premises.”

Mary Harrington

@ImperfectIdea, WDYT?

Show thread

@tripu I wonder why that astonishes you.
Belief includes that there is no proof. So obviously, people that believe and want to convince others have a need to use bogus arguments.

Ok, that they use such a bad and easily disproven argument might be a point, but don’t scammers usually try to weed out the intelligent victims to only deal with those easily scammed?


When I got to the end, I saw that your example of an "intelligent religious" person is Ben Shapiro!

Thanks for the laugh.

an #atheist vs #faith

@tomcapuder @tripu

The first time I saw a Shapiro clip I thought it was a parody.



I don’t know what’s your measure of intelligence, but Shapiro strikes me as a very intelligent person, important wrong views notwithstanding.


I always thought this was a dumb argument. Morality comes from common sense; if it does not, it is not adaptative behavior and should be discarded.

However, Shapiro is on point identifying individualism as the core of our rot. Egotism is as nonsensical as dualism or atheism.


Total sidebar: is there a guide for how to format my posts for things like bold, italic, & blockquotes?


Yes. Here’s a detailed how-to:

  1. Use an instance that supports posts



Wish I'd known that before I got all set up on this instance. Now to decide if I want to migrate or what.


Thank you very much for the help: you rocks.


No pushback! I forgot to mention that.

I find it very irritating when guests drop stupid ideas and hosts don’t challenge them.

Triggernometry is cool, but those guys are becoming too one-sided, and too gullible 😒

@tripu that's odd. I haven't followed them lately but usually they push back on anything they disagree with, no matter who the guest is. I keep seeing people online getting sucked into one side or another. Who is left with integrity?


I guess they do not disagree with most of reactionary and religious ideas now, then… 😞

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