@gat

FN needs to stay away from my Hi Power, I like it as is

@valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @valleyforge Oh they are totally away from HiPower, even stopped production https://www.tactical-life.com/news/browning-hi-power-discontinued/

@gat @valleyforge yep, the tooling finally wore out

@gat @leyonhjelm @valleyforge NOOOO!!!

@Coyote @leyonhjelm @valleyforge I knew someone was not aware about the end of HiPower. The thing about the tooling though... They could've digitized the design and kept going using CNC machines forever, if they thought it brought enough money. But FN is too large of a company.

@gat @leyonhjelm @valleyforge It is interesting, there is no patent left, it was a 1935 design, pretty much anyone could re-start the HiPower at any time. I love how PTR is keeping the roller lock alive, maybe someone could do a whole “John Browning” tribute line, a company that makes all his designs, since, in a sense an “expired patent” is basically what we otherwise call “Open Source” and it’s a ZERO clause license now, no restrictions.

@Coyote @leyonhjelm @valleyforge A ground-up repro is going to be expensive. Lugerman's Lugers start from $5800 and go up not because he's a greedy Wall St. fatcat. And remember what happened with H&MG Sturmgewehr. It was a solid company, I have their CETME-L. But they just could not do it financially. They started accepting deposits in order to finance the project, then they blew their budget. Now they took all the money from customers, and there's no product. This is how company gets shunned forever, if not killed by lawsuits.

@gat

This is simpler because it's a known design, HMG had to redevelop their design.but still not cheap.

@Coyote @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @valleyforge I think they just weren't as well sorted as they thought. A lot of this cost is pay-forward to educate the workforce, management, engineering. I'll tell you this, I wanted to make rolling blocks in .223 at some point, under the Fraurem brand. The cost of business was astronomical! We're talking north of 5 million dollars just to make 100 guns. If someone like K-E Arms or Brownells undertook that project, they could've done it much cheaper and they'd sell thousands of them.

@gat @leyonhjelm @Coyote @valleyforge I remember back in the 1990s when BATF raided B-West here in Tucson, just after a huge import of AKs. By the time they showed up, all they got was a pile of lower receivers, and B-West just started milling receivers and selling really nice US made AKs. The cost isn't as much a factor of the equipment and training, it's a factor of demand. Everyone wants an AK, Glock, 1911, etc... Browning, maybe not so much. Luger, well, nitche and people with deeper pockets.

@Coyote @gat @leyonhjelm @valleyforge

"I love how PTR is keeping the roller lock alive, maybe someone could do a whole “John Browning” tribute line"

I was JUST talking about PTR, because I loved the HK91 I had, and thier 32 looked so cool, I was watching a bunch of YouTube about it, and every reviewer seemed to love it... But, now this:
https://80percent.social/notice/A5OP2pWz8oHk7ELwNk

@gat

Steel service pistols are niche now and CZ does it a little better. I still like the Browning better then the Beretta though.

@Coyote @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @gat @Coyote @valleyforge The thing I don't like about CZ is my only real grip about a HiPower, just the blind, in the dark grab to pull the slide back isn't as easy to get ahold of other guns. CZs make it worse because of the rails... Accuracy, reliability, really nice fucking guy yea. But just that one thing kinda does put it at a mild drawback as a personal defense weapon.

I'm SOOoooo tempted to trade my P226 Extreme for one of those Sig metal framed P320s... I really need to go see what the P320 trigger pull is all about though. I am still not sold on striker fire carry guns, but I realize it's all just an age thing. I've liked pulling back a hammer since the early 1970s, hard to get that out of my system.

@Coyote

I found the CZ easy to grab but not everyone will agree. The Hi Power is as easy as anything else.

@Coyote @gat @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @gat @valleyforge

"The Hi Power is as easy as anything else."

The 13 year old me in winter gloves disagrees.

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @gat @valleyforge I know, weird, but I had a HiPower at 13, and went shooting in the winter with it, and ... 1, racking it back is the only way to carry it, because fuck trying to get that safety off in gloves. 2, racking it back in gloves was a lot harder than my dad's 1911, cold days usually ended up being wheel gun days at the range, go inside to reload either way, so, ...

@Coyote

What pistol do you recommend for 13 in winter gloves?

@Coyote @gat @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @gat @valleyforge Winter and gloves, Ruger wheel gun. I don't know. Not a CZ, but I'd still take just about anything and give it a try! LOL. Good question though, what is military/police preferences in arctic climates?

@Coyote

Given the context, probably something without a tight trigger guard.

@Coyote @gat @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @gat @valleyforge

Wait.. wait… wait… What do you let a 13 year old have, wearing winter gloves if he has to because of weather, that you want to let shoot safely and learn about guns? I know this one!

Thompson Contender!

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @gat @valleyforge That is, if it’s a handgun. Rifle, I’d go with a Marlin lever… big hoop parts…

@Coyote

Moist nuggets work in winter as well

@Coyote @gat @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @gat @valleyforge WTF is a moist nugget?

@Coyote

Mosin Nagant

@Coyote @gat @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm P320 has a generous trigger guard.

@Coyote @Coyote @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @Coyote @gat @valleyforge
"tempted to trade my P226 Extreme for one of those Sig metal framed P320s"
I want to see this in person: https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-axg-scorpion.html

@Coyote @gat @leyonhjelm @valleyforge

I finally got to get my hands on one of these in a gunshop to check out how it feels. I am very tempted to sell my P226 for one...

@Coyote Sorry, but what are we talking about here? My Pleroma seems to indicate PTR-91, which seems incongruent with selling a P226.

@Coyote @leyonhjelm @valleyforge

@gat

He was replying about this:

https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-axg-scorpion.html

@Coyote @Coyote @valleyforge

@gat @leyonhjelm @valleyforge I wore out a HiPower once, got it new, lot of custom work, shot the shit out of it, and eventually cracked the frame, right in front of the trigger guard. Could be because in the 80's we had the 1911 guys hating, and throwing a heavy ass knock down target into the steel competitions, and I'd just throw some really hot loads in the mag around where I knew I'd be shooting at it... I guess I broke it... But, that thing saw a LOT of abuse, and I still loved it, had it welded, and kept using it for a while.. Till I got a commander that was a little more riced out.

@Coyote

Mine is stock but I've considered a second (third I guess actually) to redo as a custom job. Dunno if I'd like that more than stock.

@gat @valleyforge

@leyonhjelm @gat @valleyforge Let me find something for you, I'll PM you a picture of one I had as a kid...

@leyonhjelm @gat @valleyforge Shit, can't find it, but it was a $1,500 custom job by Austin Behlert, and I'd never seen anything sexier...

@leyonhjelm @gat @valleyforge It had this done to it, trigger guard, sights, but was full slide, gold trigger with amazing crisp pull, extended slide and safety, just sexy as fuck.. But an image of his work I totally recognise is the trigger guard and texturing: https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_103248/gi_101164316/Browning-Hi-Power-HP-Mini-9mm-Custom-by-Austin-Behlert_101164316_103248_818A8DC2C542EE77.JPG

@leyonhjelm @gat @valleyforge It's worth doing an image search for "Austin Behlert Browning" and see what people were doing in the 1980s...

@leyonhjelm @gat @valleyforge This is sexy:
https://www.1911forum.com/attachments/charles-2-jpg.36554/