@csgordon@zirk.us @Npars01 @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @Mastopoet @GreenFire
No.
The FairTax would increase the cash in peoples' pockets, so people who are in debt and are cash poor would end up with more resources to address that problem.
Remember that the FairTax also eliminates the taxes taken out of a person's paycheck, increasing their take home pay.
It would be an immediate boost to stagnant wages, since you bring that up in particular.
@volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @Mastopoet @GreenFire
A sales tax would *not* boost stagnant wages. A sales tax system deepens indebtedness.
Payroll taxes pay for social security & unemployment insurance.
Eliminating the income tax collection system eliminates the funding for these programs. Which is the point.
Republican billionaire donors want to eliminate the entire social safety net, including social security and Medicare.
@Npars01 @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
exactly, the "fair tax" is a libertarian way to protect the rich from paying their fair share for supporting the society that allows them to make the money they make.
@Mastopoet @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
Corporations rely on a whole host of public services and infrastructure that they are reluctant to pay for, yet come from taxation.
An educated, literate work force from public education.
Subsidized international highway system.
Airports. Ports. Railways.
@Npars01 @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
yes, in fact, a close look at a system of UBI, single payer health care, no cost to student higher education and a system that strongly encouraged marginalized folk to pursue whatever career might appeal to them, would actually lower the tax burden on citizens and corporations over time
@Mastopoet @Npars01 @csgordon@zirk.us @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @GreenFire
Wow, I just want to point out in response to this one is that no cost student higher education is highly, highly regressive, ending up asking the poorest to help fund educations that help the best off make a lot more money.
Any economically progressive stance would completely reject that sort of strategy.
@volkris @Npars01 @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
Ok, this is an ignorant post. You seem to think the poor choice to not get a higher education, for reasons other than cost. The poor would get the most direct benefit from no cost to student higher education, though, as I said, in the end
, all taxpayers would benefit from a wider base of highly educated workers and citizens. Poor people don’t go to college because they can’t afford it!
@Mastopoet @Npars01 @csgordon@zirk.us @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @GreenFire
There is this unchallenged mythology out there that spending time in classrooms is necessarily beneficial to the student.
It's not.
But educational institutions do enjoy selling that story, even as students may find themselves unable to gain employment based on their certificates, and find themselves having wasted all that time, at least.
@Npars01 @Mastopoet @csgordon@zirk.us @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @GreenFire
Yeah, but we make the mistake of electing stupid officials who build that infrastructure without charging for it.
We should not blame corporations for that. We elected them. That's really on us.
@volkris @Npars01 @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
Corporations have bought the politicians, big business invented corruption and use politics to make it legal.
We do pay for infrastructure, except the people who are most responsible and make the most profit from it are the rich who do not pay their taxes.
Give it up already, I am tired of talking to one who speaks such foolishness!
@Mastopoet @Npars01 @csgordon@zirk.us @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @GreenFire
What in the world?
The FairTax is specifically designed to take from the rich and give to the less well off! It's specifically has elements of the plan to make sure what you describe doesn't happen!
@volkris @Npars01 @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
It is designed as a rich man’s scam, either you know and are a shill or you should know it and are just ignorant. Look who is behind it.
@Mastopoet @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
The likes of Huckabee are proponents of the 30% sales tax. That tells you all you need to know.
It's a "tax the poor" form of taxation.
@Mastopoet @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
One of the "Backwards & Upside-down" media narratives adopted by the uber-rich is:
1. "Your work is overpaid, you should be grateful to even have a job" as seen in Chris Hohn's TCI Hedge Fund missives to Google demanding 20% mass layoffs.
This is a man who took home $1.5 million dollars a day.
2. There's a "labor shortage" when it's really people refusing to work in unsafe conditions that risks killing them or their family.
@Npars01 @Mastopoet @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire a 30% sales tax intsead of taxing the wealthy & corporations will crash the global economy. But that’s what they want - chaos & collapse.
@TransitBiker @Npars01 @Mastopoet @csgordon@zirk.us @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @GreenFire
It's a 30% sales tax that applies to the wealthy (who buy expensive things, mind) instead of taxing the working class, leaving the working class with more money to buy things.
The global economy will be fine.
@Npars01 @Mastopoet @csgordon@zirk.us @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @GreenFire
The FairTax proposal would directly send checks to the poor.
@Mastopoet @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
Libertarian & Republican media practices to reframe a narrative is: "Backwards & Upside Down"
We don't have an attack on the civil rights of women, we have a "pro-life" movement.
We don't have tax evasion by the rich, we have poor people exploiting their poverty as seen in Reagan's "Welfare Queen" speeches.
We don't have gun violence fostered by a Russian-funded NRA, we have a mental health crisis.
We don't have an...
1/2
2/2...
... anti-democracy movement funded by Putin & MBS, we have anti-wokeness.
We don't have voter suppression, we have a voter ID problem.
We don't have a seditious conspiracy to overturn an election, we have Capitol tourists.
We don't have income inequality, we have an inadequate income tax system.
@Npars01 @csgordon@zirk.us @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @Mastopoet @GreenFire
That is factually incorrect.
By law payroll taxes are required, and have always been required, to be deposited in the Treasury just like any other taxes. So by law payroll taxes pay for everything from congressional toilet paper through Ukrainian armaments.
Seriously, it's written right into the law that established Social Security in the first place.
Eliminating income tax just means that workers keep more of what they earn, more of what they trade their labor for.
Heaven forbid!
@volkris @Npars01 @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
Your libertarian propaganda is pretty thin
@volkris @csgordon @Npars01 @Clackable @stopgopfox @Mastopoet @GreenFire Smoke and mirrors. "unFairTax" just makes it seem like everyone gets a raise without the moneyed class having to actually pay more for their labor. Consumption tax screws middle/lower classes because basic consumption is a much higher percentage of their income than it is for the wealthy, which is the entire point for proponents of flat and/or consumption taxes.
@dkbgeek @csgordon@zirk.us @Npars01 @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @Mastopoet @GreenFire
You would have a point except that proponents of the FairTax acknowledge and then address that issue very very very emphatically by transferring money to those people to make sure this is not impact them!
This is a core element of the proposal.
@volkris @csgordon @Npars01 @Clackable @stopgopfox @Mastopoet @GreenFire smoke and mirrors. They know it'll be an onerous bureaucratic process lots of low-income people won't go through, and for unhoused ppl it'll be impossible. By design. They are transferring the burden heavily to the middle class and lots will also fall upon the poorest. Consumption and "flat" taxes are hugely regressive.
@dkbgeek @volkris @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @Mastopoet @GreenFire
When a tax has Huckabee as its advocate, you just know it's an attack on the poor.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/trouble-fairtax
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-the-fair-tax-plan-pros-cons-effect-3305765
https://www.econlib.org/archives/2008/01/why_the_fair_ta.html
https://itep.org/fair-tax-plan-would-abolish-irs-shift-federal-taxes-from-wealthy/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predicted_effects_of_the_FairTax
@Npars01 @dkbgeek @volkris@qoto.org @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
I have not reported anyone since Christmas Day when
I got a nasty warning from a previous instance telling me to stop reporting people. But I feel that guy is a misinformation artist.
Before I blocked him, he became my first report of 2023
@Mastopoet @dkbgeek @csgordon @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
I suspect you are correct.
Even Republicans say the Fair Tax proposal is unworkable.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/23/biden-tax-gop-sales-tax/
That's a nice conspiracy theory you have there.
@volkris The unFairTax has always been a scam. That's why unserious scammers like Mike Huckster-bee love it. Lots of the lowest-income people don't have a fixed address and/or don't understand what's at stake aren't going to do the paperwork and get the "prebate" because it's not some automatic thing. The expectation is that people have to register for that every year, as the scam is described. It's funny the Cons don't see that prebate money as Universal Basic Income...
@volkris @dkbgeek @csgordon @Npars01 @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
False information and I bet you know it.
@dkbgeek @csgordon@zirk.us @Npars01 @Clackable@tldr.nettime.org @stopgopfox@libretooth.gr @Mastopoet @GreenFire
And that's the exact reason why the FairTax proposes to mail people checks to make sure the middle/lower class isn't screwed by sales taxes.
That's a core part of the proposal.
Folks who talk about the idea without mentioning the parts that make it progressive are being dishonest.
@volkris @csgordon @Npars01 @Clackable @stopgopfox @Mastopoet @GreenFire "mitigating some of the damage to attentive low-income Americans" hardly makes it "progressive." The rich will make out like bandits. The middle class will get soaked. The poor who DO get the prebate will likely lose on the net because of other aspects of the tax code taken away (child credits, etc.) States would have to take on the burden of dealing with federal taxes. The whole idea is a trainwreck.
@volkris @csgordon @Npars01 @Clackable @stopgopfox @GreenFire
Wages ARE NOT stagnant!
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/wages#:~:text=Wages%20in%20the%20United%20States%20averaged%2012.11%20USD%2FHour%20from,Hour%20in%20February%20of%201964.