I really wish people would start the process of removing the #capitalism from everything they think on.
Not everything is a zero-sum game, and not everything has winners and losers.
A #community comes together to serve the purposes of the community, not an external actor. Well, allow me to correct myself: They *shouldn't* come together to serve the needs of an external actor. Especially when it comes to social interactions.
The moment we start looking at the #fediverse as something existing to service the needs of #corporations seeking to extract #wealth from this community, the community is lost.
So, when you look at things to change on #mastodon, #calkey, #pixelfed, #writefreely, ask yourself: Is this something the community already present needs, or is it something to enable wealth extraction from our community? Not "My community" not "his/her/they's community"... **OUR** community.
@ubergeek I think you misunderstand capitalism.
The entire core of capitalism is going beyond zero-sum games. Capitalism emphasizes mutual benefit over winners and losers.
If I make a trade with you, why would you accept it if it left you a loser? Why would I offer if it left me a loser? The only way any trade happens is due to mutual benefit, us both becoming better as a result.
We should be open to capitalism engaging in this community specifically because it would serve our interests... or else those associations wouldn't happen anyway, so it's moot.
And just remember, every single instance is running on a server that required investment. #Capitalism is pretty much at the core of #Fediverse, and we are experiencing that benefit first hand.
@volkris Trading is not the same as #capitalism.
Capitalism isn't about mutual benefit: It's "winners and losers", rent seeking, and a ruling class controlling the resources rightfully owned by the working class.
No, we should *not* welcome capitalism into social interactions. Social interactions are part of the human condition, and are a need for all humans. There shouldn't be a "price" attached to that.
And yes, every single instance requires money to run. No argument. It doesn't *have* to be that way, and last I checked, server ops aren't trying to turn a profit, or to monetize their users.
Because if they did any of that, they would be shunned, rather quickly.
So, the #fediverse is thriving in spite of capitalism, not because of it.
OF COURSE server ops are trying to turn a profit. Remember, there's more to advantage than cold hard cash.
This is a great example of what I said above.
The person operating a server does so because they feel like they're better off doing it than not doing it, in whatever way the individual happens to judge that. Maybe they appreciate the community they're creating. Maybe they feel good having contributed to the world.
That is all profit. The server runner invests resources in his server because he judges that he's better off in the end.
And as we enjoy those servers too, that capitalistic drive is the core of what has made this work.
No capitalism, no instances.
@volkris Generally, people pay the hosting costs, to provide a service to the community they are a part of. I know thats why I did.
Of course, they'd like to break even. Which instances are running as a for-profit?
So why do you personally provide that service? Maybe you feel good being part of the community?
There is something you are getting out of providing that service, that's your profit.
Like I said, doesn't have to be money.
Are you better off feeling good or not feeling good, even considering your investment in the service?
Sounds to me you came out better having done that, which is exactly a functional definition of profit, with your benefit outweighing the cost.
Your benefit in terms of feeling good - whatever resources you've put into doing it = profit
Congrats! It is exactly how profit drives Fediverse, right there in your own experience.
Your investment in the service is simply the capitalistic pursuit where resources are brought to bear to address some win-win enterprise.
@volkris Its not profit. It's because each of us exist because of all of us.
That's not profit. Thats just how humans act in social environments, when the pursuit of profit is absent.
And no, profit is money. Feeling good isn't "profit". Feeling good about doing good is just the default for being a person.