@alexdp
I consider #Ableism to be a #disqualifier for any discussion.
Now that's done with, I don't like #AnCaps but that doesn't mean anyone's off the hook for ableism.
And yes, #Bitcoin 
and #Ethereum :ethereum: are worse than #PayPal 
and #Cash...
IMHO #Monero 
is the least worst in terms of #payment because it's battle-hardened and with a 7+ figure bounty on it's security (by the #IRS alone!) one can assume that'll stay this way for tue time being...
@sollee @asei_sano @harkl @aruiz
@kkarhan @asei_sano @harkl @aruiz Monero is quite nice, tbh even as an Ethereum maxi, Ethereum needs to step up its game with privacy solutions
I'd say that plain Ethereum mainnet is bad for payments, but rollups + escrow can get the same functionality as PayPal (I'm building something related to this actually, coming out soon™️ !)
@sollee @asei_sano @harkl @aruiz TBH, #Ethereum failed when #TheDAO was #backrolled as #SmartContract and thus #Buterin and other massive stakeholders showcased their capability to undo stuff they don't like.
Which makes them a liability I'd not count on...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g&t=7173s
@sollee more specifically it allows to basically (D)DoS publicly known wallets with tainted coins (.i.e #TornadoCash) which is known as #dusting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7gaqhF-wrQ&t=289s
https://ofac.treasury.gov/faqs/1078
@sollee Compare that to #TraditionalFinance where if one were to sent me money linked with drugs or terrorism chances are I'd never even notice it because my bank automatically widthholds transactions to comply with laws.
So unless I were to complain about missing a [widthheld transaction] I'd not even be questioned.
But on #Ethereum and #Bitcoin this doesn't happen and thus it's easier to stick some dirt onto someone than planting drugs onto someone's car and then framing them...
@volkris @sollee yes and no.
Whilst it's easy to argue one's innocence and non-affiliation with drugs or drug money if neither fingerprints nor DNA are inside the package, but on a post-privacy chain where one can't really prevent getting dusted, that makes it harder for the person affected to evidence without having to self-d0x all their transactions.
I do agree that the policestate and overreach is the core problem, but sadly it's very unlikely to change in a favourable direction anytime soon.
In a chain without privacy (post? no, simultaneous) the evidence of innocent is obvious and out in the open and incontestable.
That’s a feature.
YES if you want to hide your transactions then don’t use a system that puts everything out in the open. That’s just common sense.
But like anything else on the internet, or in normal life, a person might decide that convenience or value or whatever else outweighs privacy for some transactions, and from time to time will make that trade.
The open ledger proves innocence in this case. That has value!
@volkris @kkarhan Personally, I believe privacy is quite important and if we want to prove our transaction history to certain entities we can use proving tools or hand over secret view keys (Monero).
Despite it potentially being able to prove innocence in, say, a legal dispute, I'd say the tradeoffs outweigh the benefits here as government could mandate the use of open ledgers, and then this could lead to authoritarian surveillance for a million years
Right, so that’s a matter of personal valuation.
For a person who values privacy highly, they should not use Bitcoin. But for a person who’s not so interested in privacy, Bitcoin is fine.
These are matters of personal valuation, so the tradeoffs will or won’t outweigh based on the individual’s personal priorities.
@volkris @sollee I don'tthink #privacy should be the reason for or against it.
#Bitcoin and #Ethereum's inefficiencies make them completely useless and gross waste of energy in the size of Argentina when it comes to it's power consumption.
There is no legitimate reason to use or support #ASIC-based #Mining or even accepting #Cryptocurrencies that do so as even ignoring the wastefulness of #Energy they create far more excess #pollution with their #eWaste aka. once the Hardware is old.
You say these things are useless, but the people with actual skin in the game disagree, finding that they have so much use that they’re willing to spend that energy in exchange for them.
The amount of energy put into Bitcoin mining is a direct measure of the value of Bitcoin to the people trading that energy for the currency.
I get it that you personally don’t value it. Great! It’s not useful to you personally. Great! So don’t spend energy to get any since it’s not valuable to you.
But it IS valuable to so many other people, so valuable that it’s worth spending a lot of energy on it.
@kkarhan @volkris good point, bitcoin has a security budget problem
however, cryptocurrencies do offer an interesting new alternative to fiat money, we have payment infrastructure, free-market legal systems, etc. only time will tell if crypto succeeds in killing the state, integrates into traditional finance, or is driven into obscurity by the state
@volkris @sollee
"You say these things are useless, but the people with actual skin in the game disagree"
that's called "#EscalatingCommitment" and "#SunkenCostFallacy"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment
Very common in #Gambling...
Maybe those folks should just cashout, stop burning money and move on.
Because once the last #Bitcoin
has been mined, #TransactionFees will go through the roof...