BREAKING: The Colorado Supreme Court holds, 4-3, that Trump "is disqualified" to be president under the Fourteenth Amendment, and "it would be a wrongful act" for him to be listed on the Colorado presidential primary ballot. More to come at Law Dork: https://www.lawdork.com/
@chrisgeidner so much for democracy
@volkris @chrisgeidner You're talking about that time the former guy tried to stay president after we fired him, right?
@liquor_american nope!
This is about the future, preventing voters from voting their choices on future ballots, not about the past.
@volkris @chrisgeidner You see, what you're suggesting would actually violate the constitution, specifically Amendment XIV Section 3.
Please allow me to do the very tiny amount of work for you that you seem unable or unwilling to do for yourself:
@volkris @chrisgeidner A link for you, too, because you need the help https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv
@liquor_american The thing is, even if this is legal and correct and even moral or any standard of propriety that you would like to propose, it still does mean people can't vote for the candidate they want.
Even if it is entirely proper to throw out that democratic process, it still has to be owned that the democratic process is being thrown out.
No matter how correct this may be, it does mean people aren't able to vote for the candidate they want to vote for on the ballots.
And owning that might be part of emphasizing how important it is that this be done. It's reasonable to say that this is so important that we have to throw out democratic principles for the sake of keeping Trump off the ballot.
Fine.
It means that is just this important.
@volkris @chrisgeidner What are you even talking about?
No state owes it to an insurrectionist to include his name on their ballot. Idiots with fucking-up ideas can still write him in if they want. That ought to satisfy you, right?
Or do you actually have some other problem you're not being forthcoming with?
@liquor_american nope, just stating it plainly.
Keeping a major candidate off the ballot means an interruption of the democratic process.
You might say that no state owes it to anybody to support the free vote, and you may say that it's absolutely worth it to interfere with it, and keep Trump off the ballot, and that's fine.
But it's worth it to own what's going on here.
If it's so important to keep Trump off the ballot that the democratic process should be subverted like this, well then let's own that, and let's say clearly that it's so important to keep Trump away that we are willing to interfere with the voting process.
If that's your position, great!
@volkris @chrisgeidner My position is we abide by the US Constitution. If you think your feelings supersede that, it's not really my job to explain to you how that thinking is faulty.
@volkris @chrisgeidner Literally just read the Constitution. It's right there. And if you don't like it, lobby your representatives to repeal the amendment. That is the proper process, since you seem very concerned with processes.
@liquor_american what in the world are you talking about? It has nothing to do with my preferences.
Great! You say the constitution throws the voting process under the bus. Fine. Own it.
It has nothing to do with me or my preferences. It's really about, great if you think it's more important to keep the guy off the ballot, then I guess this is working for you, more important to do this then support the democratic process of voting for who people want to vote for.
I mean I don't live in Colorado. And I don't want to vote for Trump. So it really doesn't impact me.
But if you think this is a good thing, great! Own it!
@volkris @chrisgeidner Your need to put words in my mouth and then shame me for your words that you put in my mouth is pretty damn weird. I'm starting to think maybe you like wasting my time, because making a legitimate point doesn't seem to be a priority for you.
If you don't like what the Constitution proscribes for insurrectionists, there is a remedy for that. It's called repealing an amendment. Very very simple.
Have a good one
@liquor_american if you're trying to talk to me, whoever said I don't like what the constitution prescribes?
Like I'm trying to emphasize, if you're down with being anti-democratic because this is so important that it requires anti-democratic responses, great! Go for it!
But own it.
I'm not judging. I'm not voting for Trump. I don't really care. But let's be clear that we are being anti-democratic with this sort of move.
@jaystephens denying the facts doesn't make them untrue. It just makes the arguer clearly wrong.
Yes it is undemocratic. Just stomping the foot and declaring it otherwise doesn't change the fact that it is undemocratic.
@volkris @liquor_american @chrisgeidner you are entitled to your opinion.
My opinion is that your position is fairly fast down a slippery slope that leads to authoritarian leaders being able to force you to vote how they want, through threat of violence, which is the opposite of democracy.
@volkris @liquor_american @chrisgeidner I know you're not _quite_ arguing that no behaviour at all should keep a person off the ballot but you do seem to be coming quite close.
@jaystephens Oh I would emphatically say that no behavior at all should keep a person off the ballot! Because I support the democratic process. I think it's really important for voters to have that voice.
And again, we do have legal safeguards to prevent bad people from actually taking office, but I think it is so important that voters be able to vote for whoever they want to. That is a really important thing for society.
That element of formal expression of public ideas is critical to a modern society.
Have you heard the old phrase involving soapbox, ballot box, cartridge box? Well that's why the ballot box is so critical to preventing the process from getting to number three.
Let voters vote for whoever they want to, and let the legal institution react to their choice.
@jaystephens I have no idea how you get there from here, as I am emphatically saying that we should reject the authoritarian leaders trying to put their fingers on the scales of voting.
The whole point is that I am trying to resist that slippery slope that you bring up.
We have to recognize the facts before us and not let authoritarians rewrite them in order to pressure us in the way we vote.
@volkris @liquor_american @chrisgeidner
https://archive.is/WcQUH