@Eceni @volkris we need ways to share and store value. Folk need bread today, and we need granaries to store grain so they can have bread tomorrow. If we abandon the idea of accounting, we will miss some small inefficiencies and some small abuses, but the overall saving both in labour and in oppression will, I believe, outweigh that.
There's also the question of what is an abuse: what folk need bread for. If someone takes some extra to feed to the ducks, who is to say that is wrong?
@Eceni scene: the bakery. An economist from a far-away country is visiting for the day.
A person comes in and asks for two loaves.
"You're needing two, today?" asks the baker.
"My neighbour had a fall," says the person. "Her leg is hurting her."
The baker hands her two loaves.
Another person comes in and asks for two loaves. The baker hands her two.
"You didn't ask that person why she needed two?" asks the economist.
"There are five children in her house since her sister died." >>>
@Eceni Again, a person comes in wanting two loaves.
"Feeding the ducks again?" asks the baker.
"I am," says the person. "There's ice on the pond, the ducks are hungry."
"I have some stale loaves left from yesterday, would they do for the ducks?"
The person agrees, and the baker hands over one fresh loaf and one stale one.
"These are domestic ducks?" asks the economist, after the person has gone.
"No," says the baker, "wild ducks."
"Is that good use of bread?" asks the economist. >>>
@Eceni "It seems good to her," says the baker. "And it was only stale bread."
A person comes in and asks for two loaves.
"Needing an extra loaf today?" asks the baker.
"I want to leave one at the clootie well," says the person. "For the fairies."
"Would you take a stale loaf for the fairies?"
"Well," says the person, doubtfully, "I could eat the stale one myself."
The baker takes two fresh loaves from the shelf, and hands them over. >>>
@Eceni "Do you believe in fairies?" asks the economist, after the person has gone.
"No," says the baker, "but she does."
"What will you do," asks the economist, "if you run out of grain before the harvest, because you've wasted it on ducks and fairies?"
"I don't believe I shall," says the baker. "But if I did, I'd ask the bakers in our neighbouring communes to help out."
@simon_brooke above you said we need ways to share and store value. AGREED! Welcome to the need for money.
And then you told a long and rambling story that has nothing to do with that topic.
We're already in agreement that money is needed. Which is great to see you come around.
But the children's tale isn't particularly relevant or insightful.
@simon_brooke of course money is an abstraction. The storage of value is an abstract concept.
How do you propose to share or store value?
Yeah, but you can't eat firewood either, and that's part of why money is so much better at storing value: you're better able to convert widely accepted money into food than you'd be able to convert timber.
Your storage of those things is inefficient. It requires much more space and effort than it takes to store money, which is why humans created money in the first place.
Instead of wasting space storing value as goods, money means we can spend that space and effort building habitation that is so desperately needed by others right now.
@volkris @Eceni you don't need money to share or store value. Share – and store – things people need. Money is an abstraction.