The recent hypes (crypto and "AI") both have immense ecological impact. When using these tools one needs to be aware of the cost: For crypto that means to just kill it, for "AI" it means to be very conscious of the massive impact of testing and building these things.
(Title: AI and crypto mining are driving up data centers’ energy use) https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/24/24049047/data-center-ai-crypto-bitcoin-mining-electricity-report-iea
#pollution, #capitalism, #exploitation & #overconsumption of resources...in fact, by refusing to follow the #Ethereum smarter method, #Bitcoin, the most well-known of these #cryptocurrencies for rich people, proves its only reason for being is to destroy the #planet.
@Ronial you're overlooking the people participating in Bitcoin because they see it as providing such value and reason that they're willing to trade significantly larger amounts of energy to trade for it.
Those folks--and there are a ton of them--certainly find reason for being outside of destroying the planet.
I certainly don't care of what rich people think to be important as they just think about money & themselves and they're destroying people & earth in a multitude of ways. But I speak about the product in itself : when you know there's a better way to do things for the same result & that you don't do it, it's that this refusal is part of it & this lack of concern is part of you. & there's not only the energy, there's all the unnecessary equipment it requests. Capitalism at its worst.
@Ronial rich people?
I don't know a single rich person participating in Bitcoin. I think they probably have better things to do with their time. Lounging by the pool or whatever.
The people I know participating in Bitcoin are the ones who don't have it all, who can use the system to scrape by a little better.
It seems there ISN'T a better way to do things, or else people would be doing that other thing.
Bitcoin simply provides more value to its users, or else they wouldn't use it.
@volkris @Ronial Well the fact you don't know any rich person participating in bit coin MUST mean they don't exist right? And no amount of "scrape by a little better" justifies the damage to the planet that crypto has brought.
But you clearly are a cryptobro and so no amount of reality will break into your mind.
@nurglerider nope, but the fact that all the people I know using Bitcoin does mean that non-rich people do use it, so even if you don't care what the rich people think, maybe you'd care that we little people derive value from it.
If you don't care what rich people think, why are you so obsessed with them instead of considering the little guy?
@Ronial again, us poor ones that derive value from whatever war you have in mind would like some consideration, if you can stop obsessing over the rich for a moment.
It seems you're a poor one dreaming of being rich. I'm not that kind of poor. And I'm not obsessed. Me, I know the meaning of "self-defense". And I know letting too much latitude to rich ones is really bad idea.
@Ronial I like how you kept going back to the rich in the comment you made about not being obsessed with the rich.
You do realize that poor people can receive value from something that has absolutely nothing to do with dreaming of being rich, right?
Perhaps you're projecting as your obsession with the rich has you constantly having such dreams, without realizing that the rest of us don't share the obsession.
Some of us are happy in the little creature comforts.
Frankly, it sounds like western propaganda.
Sorry, it's you since your first post who attacked on the "rich" angle of what I was saying. Me, I was against the system of Bitcoin in itself. Independently.
@Ronial so you wouldn't mind if it was, in your words, "cryptocurrencies for the rich people"?
That wasn't an attack, just some neutral description you happened to be wrong about, but that didn't factor into your opinion?
To be clear, you're not against Bitcoin, but against this false version of how Bitcoin works.
But I think it's funny that you seem to be distancing yourself from a position that it's a problem that it might be "for the rich".
@nurglerider
Stop trolling. I don't know where you saw I was for Bitcoin. And regarding the price of it, I don't know how you think it's money for the poor ones. That's not even a subject I'm interested in. It's just another obvious (at least for those who aren't cupid speculators & climate deniers) capitalist aberration.
@Ronial it's money for the poor ones because the poor ones derive value from using it as money!
Haven't I made that clear? I'm surprised you don't know by now how I think that since I think I spelled out how I think that a couple of times now.
It's almost like you just don't want to hear it because it doesn't match what you want to believe.
Or maybe you're just too busy thinking about the rich for some reason.
@volkris @Ronial Had you bothered to read my response you would have seen my view on "non-rich people" using crypto currency. But I'll reinforce it to get through to you.
Cryptocurrency is BAD. Period. Who uses, whether to their individual benefit are contributing to the negative impact to our environment. I shouldn't have to explain this to you. But again, cryptobro.
Right, you shouldn't have to explain this to me because you shouldn't have been so factually misinformed in the first place.
You SHOULD know better if this is a topic that's interesting to you.
Sadly, it sounds like you have been misinformed, so here we are.
@nurglerider Oh I thought I said it above so I didn't want to repeat myself.
No, Bitcoin does not require this amount of energy. It's not part of the protocol or the design of the system.
You could run the entire Bitcoin system off of a car battery and a solar cell if you wanted to. Not just one node, but the entire system. The crypto runs on a fanless Raspberry Pi just fine
All of this shouting about the amount of energy that bitcoin requires is just sensationalist hyperbole that doesn't match the technological facts of how the system functions and what it requires.
I'm sorry that there are so many outlets putting out sensationalist nonsense to get clicks, but they're wrong.
Now, there is an option for people to trade more energy for Bitcoin if it's valuable enough to them, if it's worthwhile and worth more than the energy to them, but that is completely optional, completely up to them.
And at that point it's a matter of trading something that's less valuable for something that's more valuable, which is a good thing by definition.
But bitcoin doesn't require it.
@volkris @nurglerider
Cryptocurrencies is a rich world above all. I wasn't all this against rich ones until I understood they were involved in an unilateral war against the poor ones. IMO, the individual wealth should be capped.