Using the #fediverse is both like browsing and email. We can go look at whatever we want on here, but people can also tag us with whatever they want. This is what makes server level blocking/silencing complicated. We don't like anybody limiting what we can see, but we also don't want the world to be able to send endless shit into our inbox. A healthy fedi will be full of servers fully federated and dedicated to balancing these concerns for their users and the larger network. #fediblockmeta
@wjmaggos but this is where I promote the idea of giving users more control over their own feeds, so that servers aren’t so central to figuring out one-size-fits-all policies for all of their users.
Different users will want that balance set differently, so we should focus on letting users have controls over their experiences.
we should focus on servers that don't flood new users with crap but also let people see what they want. it will never be perfect but that's how we get the most new users (which is what I want but I understand others might not and thus all my arguments are kinda non applicable). if they then want to move somewhere else with less filtering or add some more, fantastic.
@wjmaggos but therein lies the problem :)
How does the server know what the user would consider crap vs what they want?
And even harder, how does the server deal with two different users having vastly different judgments about that?
This is the problem with focusing on servers.
It’s exactly why I think we should rather focus on users, letting them control what they see, based on what they would find to be crap vs wanted content.
@wjmaggos that’s a great example I might use, as email server spam protection very often works with users to tailor filters for each one.
So we could focus on doing similar things here.
For generations now we’ve watched email server spam filters try various ways to tailor themselves to each user, with techniques ranging from analyzing frequent contacts through feedback mechanisms.
Let’s learn from that and follow the example here!
but early on, the stage we're at with the fedi, being more broad with the blocking worked better than no blocking at all. we can get more nuanced when we have a more developed ecosystem. it would be a waste of resources to focus on that now. right now, if we can just make the distinction between tagging and browsing, we can make this place more welcoming to everyone. sadly the sadomasochists will have to get treated like shit off mainstream fedi till we can make those upgrades.
@wjmaggos it would be nice to at least see talk about user focus, even if its expressed as a longterm hope or a direction that we’d like to see development progress in.
Heck, if we talk about such things then who knows if a developer with experience in, say, email spam filtering might not be able to offer a relatively easy solution from solved problems in that world.
However, I see so much talk about server focus without and developing things to help servers that talk of user focus is starkly absent.
If these are problems to be handled by a more developed ecosystem, all the more reason to start working and highlighting them now.
I made my OP above cause I've never seen anyone point out how the moderation struggles here can be seen as email vs browsing. I've been arguing in circles with folks who are very free speech, until we stumbled on the spam issue. maybe they were trolling but they admit spam is a place where their absolutism doesn't fully apply. then the question just comes down to what kind of replies function like spam.
so while I agree, even viewing moderation this way isn't common yet afaik.
@volkris
there are edge cases but "die (slur)" is crap. should email servers not run anti spam programs because some people buy the penis pills?