@kensanata when you redefined anti-vaxxer as someone who is against compulsory vaccinations, your argument is void here.
@kingyoyaki @kensanata@octodon.social most people should probably get the vaccine. However, allowing people the option of what to do or put in their bodies is their choice. There's a big difference between saying no to compulsory vaccination and saying no to vaccines in general.
@zpartacoos @kensanata Personally I won't get it, and that's my choice. I think there are many valid reasons for that. Pushing compulsory vaccinations or other nonsense is just going to make people angry.
@kingyoyaki @kensanata@octodon.social right. I think people should make the choice out of their own volition rather than "because government says so", being from Venezuela this line of thinking has never sat well with me for current and historical reasons... In any case, part of the issue is the pretentious attitude that this set of vaccines in question are identical to others in general. Realistically, we can't know for sure what the long term effects will be (same can be said for covid tho) so it is up to each person to pick their own risk to societal help ratio. Of course, those who proclaim themselves to be 100% in the societal help bucket are making the implicit assumption that less covid now is better (I.e flattening the curve asap) however in my eyes there are valid reasons for questioning that assumption on the basis of evolutionary virology which tells us that by vaccinating a population at too quick of rate might cause a lot of evolutionary pressure for the virus to become much more fit and vaccine immune thus we could even be causing a much worse virus in the future.
So, I think the whole vaccine deal is much more nuanced than most give it credit for. Perhaps the best is that we are open to ideas and discussions rather than blindly labeling those having these conversations "anti-vaxxers" which at this point is used as a derogatory term. Instead, let's keep the conversation rolling and the discussion alive while updating our probability weightings as new evidence comes in.
Disclaimer: I'm fully vaxxed
@zpartacoos @kensanata I think there's some merit to people who don't want to get vaccinated *yet* because we've seen issues in people who have been vaccinated and then have had side effects. That's not me being anti-vax, I'm very in favour of vaccines. However I also understand people who want to wait because it's still too "new" for many people.
@kingyoyaki @kensanata@octodon.social I agree that many people feel this way. And also think it's perfectly within their right and valid to feel that way.
My issue is with compulsory use and with the labeling of "anti-vaxxer" for people merely discussing potential issues surrounding the vaccine.
Also, it must be noted that although the vaccines are new, so is the virus (and it's long term effects are not known either). So, if you haven't had covid yet, then either way you'll have to pick between getting an unknown virus/vaccine at some point in the near future.
@kingyoyaki @kensanata@octodon.social another point worth highlighting here where I disagree with people talking about current negative reactions after taking the vaccine. The problem with that is that the rate at which these rare adverse reactions occur is drastically smaller than the rate at which covid itself does damage. So, if your only squabble is that some people have had adverse reactions to the vaccine then you need to review high school stats asap!! However, I think the more interesting conversation (for me at least) is regarding the future side effects (think 1-40 years). And this is where I think we ought to have the humility to admit that at the moment we don't yet know which is worse/better neither at an individual level nor societal level. As new evidence comes in we'll know with increasingly greater certainty.
Thus, I think there's no point in judging people because they choose different than you.