A Concerned Scientist @BE@qoto.org

@bike

I can absolutely see where you're coming from there!

@adriftinaotearoa

At this point I honestly don't expect anyone to try to work through the whole thing. It blew up a lot more than I was anticipating, for sure.

@adriftinaotearoa

I hadn't actually seen that link, so thank you.

So, I know this post and the comments have gotten unwieldily. I mentioned this a couple of times, but what I believe is that under paragraph 3:

(3) With the intent to intimidate, threaten, abuse, or harass any other person

What the policeman was saying was that it was my *wife* who was harassing the woman following her around threatening her in the store for wearing a mask.

Florida harassment law is "problematic" because it's ill defined:

"In Florida, both harassment and stalking involve behavior that distresses another person, and both are loosely defined. Florida defines harassment as behavior that causes substantial emotional distress to a person and serves no legitimate purpose."

https://legalbeagle.com/6369919-harassment-stalking-laws-florida.html

This is the state in which people complain all of the time, and have enshrined law to combat, about talking positively about black people in history because it causes emotional distress to white kids.

It's been used prior to the pandemic, and not just in Florida, for masking against allergies or chemical sensitivities, so, given the political nature of it and Florida I know we won't be the ones testing it out in May after the emergency declaration ends.

@adriftinaotearoa

So this is a good point and one that I assume just comes down to enforcement. While 11 states have similar laws, many of them specifically exempt religious clothing, while Florida does not explicitly state that.

@bike

Haha! I imagine that to be true. It's funny you found this post because a couple people have asked me how it's going lately.

So, I ended up buying all of the parts myself and as soon as it warms up a bit I'm off to the woods to build ground mounts and do it myself.

@bike

The sales people are absolutely the same sales people who could be working at a used car lot the next day. I get that part, for sure. My major disappointment was finding out that even the old-hippie in the woods owned ones are just corporate shills anymore.

@augieray @McPatrick

I've read this paper a couple of times now and please point out if I'm wrong, but they don't ever define "long COVID" do they?

I also found it a little odd that their paper says:

"In this analysis, we used data on long COVID risk after infection published by the Minneapolis Fed...

Under these assumptions, we found that at steady-state, approximately 25% of unvaccinated individuals with the median contact rate have long COVID at any given time, while 12% of vaccinated individuals have long COVID..."

When the data they reference goes to a paper that states:

"I first find about 24.1% of individuals who have had COVID are long-haulers"

Which doesn't appear to discuss vaccinated vs non-vaccinated, so all I can assume is that there's underlying data there that they've seen, that I'm not finding.

I appreciate the fact that people are trying to apply modeling to all of this, though.

If it's of interest to anyone, to the best of my knowledge the most complete data I've seen is from last fall:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(22)00354-6/fulltext#back-bib0040

And seems to show varying numbers in each study they reviewed, along with the problem that everyone defines "long COVID" differently.

"First, the effects of vaccines on long-term post-COVID symptoms are scarce, since most studies identified in this review investigated the risk of long-COVID in people infected the first month after being vaccinated. Second, there was no consistent definition of long-COVID in the published literature."

"In conclusion, low level of evidence suggests that vaccination before SARS-CoV-2 infection could reduce the risk of developing subsequent long-COVID."

@Dhmspector

On the one hand I've gotten really good at pretending she doesn't exist....on the other...yikes.

@JenX

It was pointed out to me privately here, that I did post the Virginia law, but didn't discuss the fact that it does, specifically, state that to wear a mask in Virgina you would have to be:

carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device.

Perhaps that's a way forward in these places? At least in Virginia it's spelled out. Might be something to consider!

@breadandcircuses

It's an excellent article. Thank you for sharing.

I was particularly happy to see this addressed:

"Then there is the fatal confusion between efficiency and ecology. We are being duped to believe that buying more “energy efficient” or “green” products can save the planet. Whether it is a new electric car, an “eco-friendly” condo, a paper straw instead of a plastic straw, or a solar-powered turtle-shaped mega yacht – all are branded as ecological solutions because they are supposedly more energy or materially efficient than the standard alternative."

A couple of months back I posted a little bit about trying to get a solar company to help us with updating the power on our off-grid home. I was a bit harsh on the companies and how they're not actually selling sustainability. They're selling the idea to soccer moms and McMansion owners that they don't have to change anything in their lifestyle if they just put enough solar panels on their roof.

I got a bit of blowback, but I ended up updating it later to expand on my thoughts and how no one was interested in our job, but almost every one of them suggested that we *consume more electricity* and buy more solar panels. Multiple companies told me buy an electric car, or two, to up the amount of solar energy I needed. One person, not understanding that we were off grid and not trying to sell back to the grid, even suggested running a few electric heaters outside 24/7 for a couple of months and then bringing them the electric bill so they could fill out paperwork for a larger grid-tied system.

Know what I (re)learned? No one wants to hear it. Even here on Mastodon they want to believe that science has solved the climate problem and if they just slap some solar panels on their roof then they've done everything that they have to.

I deleted it and quit arguing it with people, but I'm definitely stealing "the fatal confusion between efficiency and ecology" for future use.

@TheRatCantRead And sometimes it's altruistic and sometimes it's just a calculation of productivity, but you never know until you put it out there. I wish you nothing but luck with it!

@TheRatCantRead

I'm glad the advice hit home! My wife actually had a pretty similar dilemma maybe 6 months back. Her immediate boss wanted to put her on a project that was ostensibly a step up, or would at least lead to a step up, but wasn't where she wanted her career path to go. She has her eye elsewhere in the education ecosystem longterm.

She stressed about it and stressed about it and then one day when she had a meeting with her boss and that woman's boss, she mentioned where she wanted to be and they both immediately said they'd help her get there if they could. She stressed a lot over whether she should mention something that they both, in the end, wanted for her!

@Lane

I know things get buried in all of the comments and replies, but it has been used *prior* to the pandemic, according to academic papers, against people using masks for allergies or chemical sensitivities. I have no reference on any case law, nor do I know whether any's been brought. That's really way outside of my wheelhouse.

In the end, this example or others, I just am trying to point out to people that they've spent their entire pandemic time in an emergency declaration and probably haven't thought through all of the way what ending it means.

@robinbrenizer

Don't apologize. I don't expect people to read every comment and every reply, but, this has been brought up multiple times and I replied to each and every one and I 100% stand by what I said. I've broken down exactly what paragraphs I'm talking about in each section, including the applications and exemptions.

As I have stated many times, it's a 1951 anti-KKK law. It is not a law specifically about COVID, nor the type of mask you think of when you think about this topic.

It is, however, a law that has been used *prior* to the pandemic to arrest people who wore the type of mask you and I are thinking about for allergies or chemical sensitivities.

Anyone who says it won't be used for that could be correct, but, they're ignoring the actual history of it. I will put near certainty on it that police somewhere will use it for exactly this purpose after the end of the emergency declaration.

I mean, personally, the police already told my wife exactly that. Why would I doubt them?

@TheRatCantRead

I love your larger point here and don't want to distract from it, but, honestly, as someone who's been the low person on the totem pole, been the boss and owned the business at different times in my professional life the question of how to tell your superior is actually pretty simple.

Straightforward.

A crappy boss won't care what you want because it's all about them. Any good boss will want to put you in the situation where you're most happy, because that's where you'll also be the most productive in all likelihood.

@dabertime

My mom(RIP) was honestly brilliant. She was a lifelong Mensa member and held two PhD's. She tried multiple times to break out on her own as an entrepreneur using her skill set to stop working for others, and was honestly the worst businesswoman on the planet. Couldn't figure really basic business ideas out to save her life and failed miserably each time in ways that were obvious to just about anyone else.

Brains all work differently.

@augieray

Overall this is a tremendous thread, and thank you for putting it together.

I would simply implore you when talking about COVID deaths, particularly in the US, to use excess mortality instead. There's too many ways the US is not counting COVID deaths(and you and I have have gone over them before, so I won't bore you with them here :) ).

Perhaps I'm bad at using Our World in data, or perhaps there hasn't been another update, but the latest numbers I see are still ending in November of 2022 and they show nearly 5,000 excess deaths a week in the US across 2022.

@augieray

I'm very interested to see how this plays out. I've mentioned this all, and sent links, to a few people I know in California and none of them knew about it, nor did their employers. Very small sample size, but seems like it's being ignored early on.

@SrRochardBunson @cpoliticditto@mas.to

Way outside of my knowledge base, but, I would assume it applies for people who, say, quit looking for a job during a pandemic as well?

@dianaberek

To the best of my knowledge Illinois does not have a similar state-wide law on the books. A lot of local jurisdictions do, however.