Weird how mental illness hardly shoots anyone in Canada.
@AmishSuperModel Universal Healthcare. It works.
@JonKramer @AmishSuperModel Well, unless you need mental health support within the next 6 to 12 months or so, but yeah, I do very much enjoy not having to check my bank balance before I decide if I'm going to get a detached extremity put back on.
@gordoooo_z @AmishSuperModel, have you priced mental health services or availability in the USA?
@JonKramer @AmishSuperModel No, but let me clarify that I was not implying that I thought whatever was going on over there was a better alternative, but that we still have room for improvement (and another self-guided CBT app is not going to cut it).
@gordoooo_z @JonKramer Let me clarify for you both, not that this isn’t a healthy debate.
The tweet meant that America doesn’t have the market cornered on mental illness, WE HAVE A GUN PROBLEM!
@AmishSuperModel @JonKramer That was not at all unclear. I would say "it shouldn't even need to be said" but clearly it does, and clearly it always has, but clearly it may not matter what anybody says about it. Is the gun control debate even about guns anymore?
It's more about whose side you're on. Meanwhile actual people are being actually shot with actual bullets while monied people in high places argue about their favourite colour.
@gordoooo_z @AmishSuperModel , it should be noted who does the shooting. Despite having the same access to guns, women do not commit mass murders or gun crimes. It isn't "the guns". It IS young conservative men. We seem to ignore this, I'm guessing because it isn't politically correct to make the observation. But this is real. The next mass shooter (killing strangers) will be a young white Christian male. This can't be ignored.
@JonKramer @gordoooo_z I am NOT disagreeing with either of you. Testosterone-fueled shootings run rampant in America. Crazy white males and mass shootings draw big media, but urban crime is constant. Either way, the problem is EASY ACCESS TO GUNS! Whether it’s urban gangs, mental health, or males—the issue is easy access to guns! Check where the guns come from in Chicago crimes.
@AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z , I disagree. If you take away guns, the root cause remains. The homicide rates won't change. The weapons will change, but I have never met anyone who said "I'm glad my child was beaten to death with a bat, instead of being shot", so I don't see this as an improvement. Nations that ban guns don't see drops in homicide rates. We need to refocus on the root cause. Even if that isn't politically correct.
The problem is disease. Mental disease, affecting young men. POTUS should order the CDC to investigate. But, this seems to be another 3rd rail of politics. It's just easier to blame guns...
@JonKramer @gordoooo_z OK, I agree with the toxic masculinity argument, but assholes are EVRYWHERE! It is only in America where we ensure that any idiot can get a gun.
@AmishSuperModel @JonKramer @gordoooo_z It's access to guns, together with our *culture*. Mental illness has nothing to do with it, unless you think it's a mental illness to be indoctrinated to think of human beings who live differently, look different, or hold differing opinions from yourself as subhuman and deserving of violence or execution.
I used to have to listen to my brother rant about how he wished he had a license to kill people he found annoying. He talked about how he would use a Luger pistol to execute people on the spot, Nazi style. A friend of his would go on about effing n-words, with various other claims and assertions I won't repeat. This isn't extraordinary rhetoric here in Texas. It's typical angry rural white male speak. They literally think that God is on their side, that other people are wrong and disgusting just for existing, and that this gives them the right to execute them. The only thing that stops them is the potential for the law to step in.
@hosford42 @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z ya, I think feeling others are not worthy of existence is a mental illness. I'm not sure how anyone can think differently.
@JonKramer @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z There are things that can go wrong with the brain that affect the mind, and then there are things that can go wrong with the mind itself. This would be the latter. Not your typical mental illness. Just fucked up beliefs.
@hosford42 @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z I feel you are too kind.
@JonKramer @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z It's not kind. I don't want those people grouped with me. I have generalized anxiety disorder and recurrent major depression. Those are real mental illnesses, and they don't make me want to shoot people. When you label moral failings as mental illnesses, you simultaneously excuse their behavior and falsely associate mental illness with violence. They are fascist pieces of shit. How is that for kind?
@hosford42 @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z oh man... you have a valid argument... and I don't have a good answer ready.
I'm not sure I agree, in fact. I don't, but I don't have the capacity to articulate disagreement.
@JonKramer @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z I choose to use a different word for those folks, because it is a different problem. It separates those who are dealing with problems of brain physiology from those who are dealing with being misled by problematic philosophies. Different problems, different outcomes, different solutions. I don't care much what you call them, as long as they aren't grouped together like you're doing. "Mental illness" is generic enough that it could technically be used to cover both, but we *shouldn't*, because in this case technically correct language actually degrades effective communication. They need different words, so people can easily see the difference. Otherwise, a lot of harm will be done.
@hosford42 @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z I still am having significant difficulty forming my thoughts into words. Most of this difficulty stems from it being almost impossible, with a subject this volatile, to be sensitive enough to avoid unintention insults. This is not an attempt to dodge the subject. It IS an attempt to advise you that I disagree, and don't feel that any argument I have will be a) convincing to you, b) be a pleasant choice of conversation to you, c) be an effective use of time.
Just a small example of an argument: if we were to identify a 15 year old with a fixation on killing his classmates, and treated him as IF he was insane, would that cause any direct harm to anyone else who has a medical condition rendering them clinical insane? Or, is the best argument for direct harm the assumption that all insane people will be called potential mass killers?
Another point, I feel saying that mass killers are insane has a similar connotation, a similar logic, to saying "black lives matter." Responding with no, this other group is insane, not the killers sounds to me like responding with "white lives matter too." The second statement doesn't negate the 1st in either case, it just attempts to exclude the 1st group.
@JonKramer @AmishSuperModel @gordoooo_z If a person gets depressed, and then acts depressed, is that part of who they are, or something that happens to them? You can imagine curing it, and they resume acting like their real self. It's not part of them. It's an illness.
If a person believes that other people don't matter, and then acts like other people don't matter, is that part of who they are, or something that happens to them? No amount of arguing or showing them the pain they cause will make them care about other human beings, if that isn't already there within them. It's part of them. It's not an illness.
What has you confused is the gray area, where someone has the seeds of care within them, but their upbringing or culture prevented that from being expressed. Those people can be reached, and we should try to reach them. You can say they are ill, in a way, but it's a bit of a contortion of the definition.