I have a
right to carry a , but I don't have a right to point that at anyone who is not threatening life or property.

Being near someone when you're not wearing a is like pointing a gun at them, but instead of shooting lead it shoots spit -- spit full of viruses. And none of us know for sure whether our gun is loaded or not.

You wouldn't point a gun at someone even if you knew it was unloaded. So why spray viruses at someone, even if you think it's safe?

-19 has put a gun in each of our hands whether we want it or not. When we breathe it's like pulling the trigger.

If someone approaches me without a mask, I consider that a lethal threat and I will respond accordingly and use only as much force as necessary to defend against that threat.

First I will try to escape. If I can't do that I will tell them to stop and let them know that they are threatening my life. After that, they have a choice -- they can back off or they can stop breathing.

Holster your weapon, wear a mask.

@Pat couldn’t this logic be applied to every virus (not just COVID)? Couldn’t this be applied to every potentially lethal virus which hasn’t yet been observed? Doesn’t that imply that these measures should be in place forever and that we should never return to normal? What kind of life is that to live?

@Binkle

It depends on the virulence and prevalence of the virus, i.e., what the risk is of unprotected exposure (and how effective a mask would be to reduce the risk for any particular virus. In Asia, they continued to wear masks even after SAR-1 was under control and continue to wear masks even where COVID-19 is nearly extinguished.

There is actually a good case to be made for wearing masks during each flu season, for example, because masks are even more effective at controlling the flu and flu vaccines are not always effective , and many people die from the flu each year (but still that's only a fraction of those who have died from COVID-19).

But measles, for example, is much less prevalent and spreads much more readily than COVID-19. I haven't seen an studies on it, but I don't think ordinary cloth masks would help much to control measles. But the measles vaccine is very effective, so that's what's recommended for that disease.

@Pat explain to me in greater detail how you'd delineate between two different viruses based on virulence and prevalence, and how exactly you could make the case that your standard of risk management be the standard adopted by the public, rather than being steamrolled by those more safety-conscious than yourself.

@Binkle

Society makes these kinds of judgements all the time. We hope that they make the judgements based on reason, but sadly that's not always the case.

For example, I've heard many people argue that COVID-19 is no big deal because "98% of people who get it survive." Well, that's much worse odds than the brave solders who stormed Normandy and other areas in France during Operation Overlord in WWII. People hear 98% and it sounds like a big number but it's actually a terrible risk of dying.

Most juristidictions don't allow people to point a gun at someone even if they know it's not loaded. The risk is very small, but the consequences are enormous. We decide what is negligent and what is not. With COVID-19 and masks it's a no-brainer. In fact, the only reason why it is even a question is because the US had an imbecile in the WH with a big microphone who told everyone not wear masks. If he hadn't have done that and other mismanagement, a half-million people would still be alive today who died from COVID-19.

@Pat are you certain it couldn't be that the US has a historical tradition which takes after that of the Anglo Saxons for whom masks are a cultural sign of untrustworthiness and subservience? I dunno man, it seems like there are more angles there than you're willing to consider.
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@Binkle

The only angle I have to consider is whether that guy who is approaching me is a threat or not.

@Pat I typed out like 3 replies trying to think of something I might be able to say to convince you to hear other people out, but by your own admission that's not something you're going to consider. It makes me sad to see, man. The closed-mindedness and the yelling. Things like this are why the world sucks right now

@Binkle
Reason is what you listen to, not yelling.

@Pat the closed-mindedness was referring to you, and the yelling was referring more broadly to the current state of discourse, although I suppose the main difference between closed-mindedness and yelling is the volume and passion you do it with

@Binkle

I'm open to the facts. If they change, then so does my mind.

What facts do you have to present?

@Pat you might consider first of all that your 98% figure is actually the upper bound of the survivability figure. You don't just take as writ that the raw death total divided by the raw case total is the actual survival rate. It's considered an upper bound for the following reasons:

1) underrepresentation of mild and asymptomatic cases in testing - this happens with every disease. Obviously if someone is sick for a couple days, they might get tested or they might not, but the existence of those untested cases skews toward underrepresentation. This is worsened by asymptomatic cases which are rarely reported.

2) widespread reports of false attribution of death, based on PCR tests of patients who are already gravely ill or died for obviously different reasons than COVID.

3) There are also financial incentives given to hospitals who are dealing with large numbers of COVID cases, ergo there are reasons based in human nature for overreporting on the ground level without resorting to any sort of conspiracy.

4) PCR test cycle overcalibration through most of the last year accentuates the gaps caused by 1 & 2. Thankfully this has been rectified, but it doesn't change the fact that the data over the past year is severely incorrect.

You might also take into account that the survival rate is not evenly distributed across the population, and that the majority of deaths occur in those who are 75 years and older. As it just so happens, the average age of death-by-COVID is still right around the average age of death nationally.

@Binkle
Also, COVID-19 was the leading cause of death last year, surpassing heart disease.

@Binkle @Pat NPC man, come on you have heard of Yuri, you should understand whats up. hysteria and superstition rule these people minds. They fundamentally have different values and metaphysical beliefs. They do not value things like freedom at the same level as you.
@Binkle @Pat let alone critical thinking skills, they are easily mental moved and are emotional invested in there sudo faith. Truth is not something they care about, facts don't matter to mind raped people.
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