Every day brings new stories of leaders of the American left calling for violence, followed by attacks against non-leftists, often physical, violent attacks.
What's the correct term for using violence to attack people who don't agree with your political ideas?
@SecondJon You seem to be arguing that the left is more violent than the right. Let me offer a counterpoint:
https://twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/1055095497097142273
@peterdrake Not quite - my toot was primarily about many *leaders* of the American left widely calling for violence.
I don't think that a tweet about an unknown person sending a bomb to someone is a direct counter point to leadership actively calling for violence, unless we can look at examples of where the political opponents of these former presidents (tweet doesn't say who?) called for people to commit violence against them the way that Clinton, Holder, and many others on the left are calling for violence against the right.
@SecondJon Interesting. My sense is just the opposite: that GOP leaders (especially Trump himself) are much more likely to call for violence. Gianforte upped the ante by performing the violence himself (earning applause from Trump).
Certainly right-wingers are actually murdering far more people than left-wingers:
Trump is, to put it lightly, not making this issue a priority:
@peterdrake
In trying to figure out if Trump's rally /comedy routine is in the same category. He didn't tell people to go body spam reporters, and said his initial reaction was negative but then thought the voters might like it. It's a weird statement, like lots of what he says.
Meanwhile Clinton has called for an end to the civility, Waters has called for assaulting people in restaurants and has stations, Holder has declared that the democrats are about fighting in the streets and kicking political opponents when they're down.
There's something different about these statements that seem to be orders to the voters to engage in violence against political opponents.
I wonder if there's anyone in leadership on the right other than Trump... Or is it that Trump alone on the right and the overall leadership on left are engaged in this type of rhetoric?
The most recent actual physical violence I can think of is against Republicans. A Bernie Sanders campaign worker sought to assassinate republican DC legislators, successfully shooting one, Rand Paul, I think, was attacked and suffered multiple broken ribs, local republican candidates are being physically attacked this election cycle.
Trump is now condemning violence and calls for it, I wonder if his rhetoric will change, or if the many in democrat leadership will stop calling for it. I doubt it.
My best guess is that for Trump it's thoughtless or a missing brain to mouth filter...for the left it seems a political strategy to call for violence.
I'd like it to stop from all of them.
@peterdrake
I don't think I actually hold Bernie Sanders responsible for his supports trying to assassinate his political opponents, but I do see the right always rejecting and distancing themselves from the self professed or otherwise identified "right wing" violent people. I don't see the same from the left.
@peterdrake
Right, I'm free to distance myself from any politician. The bumper sticker I bought that election was "Giant Meteor 2016."
I don't get to vote for individuals behavior, so that's why I'm talking about people in actual leadership positions.
My take is that commanding your political followers away from civility toward violence is bad, whether it's coming from the single person on the right's leadership or the many voices on the left's leadership.
It's no way to #reachacross.
Left and right and policy VS personality. CW for length
@peterdrake
A different topic that you touched on is whether one can separate the person from the policy. You said the GOP seems uncomfortable with Trump, but they all vote together.
If you're right, then everyone is uncomfortable with Trump. But what's the connection to how they vote? If you're uncomfortable with a person do you have to oppose their policy ideas?
I think that's a mistake that both the left and right share. On the right Trump supporters I know like the policies so they believe he must be a great guy. On the left, they see him as very much not a great guy, so how dare anyone vote for the policies of this unlikable person.
What if we voted based on policy ideas, rather than personality? I don't like the manta of Party over Person, but Policy over Person makes more sense.
If I need a medical specialist, but the best guy for the job is someone I'd never get along with, would I go with someone else? I think I'd try to get the best for the job and not try to arrange a vacation together.
If it's reasonable to separate person from policy, maybe the conversation could shift toward ideas rather than personality. Or we could at least separate them into two conversations and then it's not a mystery why, for example, the party that always runs in tax cuts will vote for tax cuts even if they're uncomfortable with the person in the white house.
US politics
@SecondJon I agree on policy being the important thing. It is the GOP's policies to which the left objects.
That said, Trump's activities are an unusual threat to civil democracy. See the 4th toot in this thread:
@SecondJon Huh. I'm not seeing that.
Trump called literal swastika-waving Nazis, who had just murdered someone, "very fine people". He applauded a candidate who physically assaulted a journalist. During the campaign, he suggested that "Second Amendment people" might do something about Clinton if she won.
He'll back down after a few days of uproar, having winked at his base and garnered attention, but he certainly doesn't start by distancing himself from violence.
On the other side, Pelosi has condemned Antifa (who haven't actually killed anyone).
In the Democratic platform: "While freedom of expression is a fundamental constitutional principle, we must condemn hate speech that creates a fertile climate for violence."
I find it interesting that you distance yourself from Trump's "comedy routine". The GOP seems uncomfortable with Trump, but they fall in line with him every single time it comes down to a vote.
I agree that all calls for political violence are inappropriate and fantastically dangerous. I don't agree that the problem is solely or even predominantly on the left.