“Beijing has directed several key state-owned automakers, including VW partner FAW Group, to prioritize technology and market share over profitability. That’s hardly an option for Germany’s publicly-listed carmakers.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-10-14/bmw-mercedes-and-volkswagen-bmw-mbg-vow-evs-struggle-to-compete-in-china
// rents to shareholders are simply unaffordable under a dynamic, competitive capitalism
@interfluidity "competetive" meaning what exactly? I somehow doubt that the carmakers are competing with each other in any meaningful way, otherwise the needs of the customers would be met by at least one.
Got that here in germany too, they ALL make expensive cars for people that have less and less money.
@admitsWrongIfProven There’s a broader critique about car culture generally (and I think China has made a terrible mistake by following in Western footsteps and embracing it). But conditional on that, China’s EV market is as competitive, including on price, as any automobile market except perhaps the very early, preconsolidation, days of Western industry.
@interfluidity What frightens me most is that the openly authoritarian regime is doing better.
If feels like the side effect will be declared the cure soon, implementing more open authoritarianism while continuing to fail.
@admitsWrongIfProven Yes. That’s a real danger. Ultimately countries that develop power and prosperity and provide for lives and cultures that seem attractive will be emulated. In the 1990s, everyone emulated the US. Going forward, countries will increasingly emulate China — including its authoritarian aspects — unless and until more liberal societies become more competitive at offering an aspirational model.
@Hyolobrika @interfluidity I was apprehensive tooting this because it's a bad analogy.
The authoritarianism is unconnected to their less wrong approach, and it's also not black and white with authoritarianism, which exists here too.
Maybe it should be more like "the unrelated factor declared the cure", but that's not very catchy.
@interfluidity The point is they see the price as relevant and try something.
Can't speak for the US, but it is pretty clear our carmakers 1) do not try to achieve a low price and 2) do get subsidies too, even if maybe indirectly (through favourable conditions)
@admitsWrongIfProven yes. all manufacturing industries get subsidies one way or another, whether by more direct programs or government tolerance / encouragement of consolidation and market power.
china has found a form of subsidy that is often terrible in many respects (make bad loans and pretend they are good pretty indefinitely), but encourages rather than limits competition.
the US like Germany subsidizes in ways that do not encourage competition. i argue we should reform that. 1/
@interfluidity Hmm, but does your argument include compelling reasons for decision makers to swivel from short-sighted self-interest to the long term public good?
I think the rest of us need little convincing.
@admitsWrongIfProven China sells EVs for lower than the cost of the cheapest internal-combustion-based vehicles available in the West. Tens of firms actively compete. BYD is biggest and best known, but had nowhere near the dominance marquis firms from Germany or the US have relative to their markets. 1/