Denaturalization should simply not be a thing, for Elon or for anybody. The state gets its opportunity for due diligence up front. Once a person is an American they are an American.
@interfluidity Elon lied
@joe Yup. There might be criminal or other penalties for lying. You can put people in jail. But you don’t strip people of their citizenship, potentially rendering them stateless, ever.
@interfluidity It's worth exploring if another state will take him.
🅰️ ®️ ✝️ U
@joe @interfluidity The state of disconnection from reality already did.
But taking away citizenship is not a good idea to add to the toolbox of punishment. Just that someone is vile doesn't change that it is potentially ending one's ability to live. Do it for who you hate, open up the possibility to have it done to you or your loved ones.
The frequent penalty to lying to get naturalized is already denaturalization. It's a thing, no one has to invent it, it's already a recourse for the crime committed. I'm not advocating it, it is already the norm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denaturalization#Fraudulent_naturalization
@joe @admitsWrongIfProven It’s not the norm. It is extraordinarily rare.
@interfluidity @admitsWrongIfProven neither of us have stats
@joe @interfluidity Someone should be present to be held responsible for crimes against humanity... so i'd recommend keeping him. Stats nonewithstanding.
@admitsWrongIfProven @interfluidity what's the point of sources if people don't read them - stateless Nazis was exactly a thing.
@joe @interfluidity I don't see why enforcing reasonable, humane laws should be eschued in favour of sending someone to wherever.
Stating the fact that it is already done is fine, but what would be the reason to prioritize it?
@admitsWrongIfProven @interfluidity The logic in this thread is laws shouldn't exist because they are a slippery slope. No one want to hold someone accountable because others might be unfairly caught up in some mysterious non-existent dragnet. The whole thread is about not holding anyone accountable in any way.
@joe @admitsWrongIfProven No it is not. People can be prosecuted for perjury. The logic of this thread is that citizenship is foundational, that denaturalization is not an appropriate form of accountability, for anyone. You can put people in jail with their citizenship intact if that is what accountability demands.
@interfluidity @admitsWrongIfProven you're saying laws that exist do not exist and that things that happened didn't happen. You argued it's rare without evidence. Let's just stop. You just want the law gone, the rest is fear mongering.
@joe @interfluidity Just letting you know i acknowledge your desire to end the discussion and also that i am not qualified to go into the details you are interested in.
Have a nice day!
