With some friends we are setting up a local informal environmentalist group, with the aim of pushing forward good practices, spread sustainability, ecological awareness, and this kind of . stuff.

So far we are planning of doing , production, workshops, library, , collective purchase from farms, but we'd like to have more on the todo list.

Help me get out of our echo chamber, and give me your ideas about more activities we could engage ourselves and the local communities in.


@arteteco To help the human race survive so it can go on torturing and killing its own kind. A worthy effort.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that by trying to have the environment restored we are also prolonging our life as a species and therefore also our violent behaviors?
Violence between ourselves is only made worse when you have lack of resources. Beside, we'd also like to have a social value, food is kind of a universal bonding tool :)

I'd like to hear why you think it's a bad idea though, inputs is what I asked in this.post :)

@arteteco Let's just take the USA but applicable to many societies. In the 50's and 60's they had registration, forced castration, jail terms, censorship, invasion of privacy in contradiction to its stated principles, tacit state approval of street beating (aka torture). This is for gays. Then the gays won their rights starting in 1971.
But guess what the US govt just shifted to child molesters, so called. Pedophilia had always been illegal, but just after they lost the gays as scapegoats, the US govt created a national hysteria about it.  You may have no idea how terrifed the American population is now.
The reason for these scapegoat campaigns?  To distract the public from the failings of government. 
These occurred in times of abundance not scarcity. 
So this sort of pattern will be repeated ad eternam.
Should this species really be encouraged to survive?

@monsterbater Oh, I see what you mean.

Well, when you cherry-pick facts from history you can make it look like it's going for the best or worst without much effort, and in both cases it would be so simplified to be just wrong.

That doesn't answer your question: I'm not sure that I want to take a position of whether humans beings should be encouraged to survive.
But it would be a bit arrogant to put the human at the center of everything.

What I do feel is that we are taking the rest of the biosphere with us, and we have immense power that, if they went in the right direction, could at least amend much of our past 2000 years destruction.
At the end of the day, is either that or keep going in this path, killing more species, creating more instability, eventually making a hell even for tardigrades.

So, as a human being, I'd like to roll my sleeves and see what I can do to make it better.

Just my position though.

1. It is not cherry picking if you only have to pick cherries at random to see the same pattern. Holocaust, Pol Pot, Persecution of gays, persecution of pedophiles, (which is a subset of persecution of males).... Do you want to try another historical line: Japan's actions in China, Then Mao's Cultural Revolution, Modeled on Stalin's Cultural Revolution. Tuskegee University project, MK-Ultra...
2. The survival of the human species is the whole point of your project, so not taking a position on that is an absurdity for you
3. If humans do not survive, it makes no difference about the rest of the biosphere. Other living things will survive or new ones will evolve in the same way the old ones did.

4. So as a human being you have conceded that making it better is impossible, you just want to make it so that the same psychotics can continue their dysfunctional existence, and in fact you have just come full circle to restate the same faulty.

5. If you really want to make things better you would have to pick up the biggest most letheal weapon you could find and aim it at our rulers and insist that when they say they give us the rule of law including equality under that law, they really do.  You can't make things better without getting your hands dirty.

@monsterbater Hi,

1. It is. I can say "slavery was abolished" and "women can vote" and "we get to say more or less what we want without being executed", and so on. And in both your and my example, it wouldn't tell us much: there are a lot of explanations, backgrounds and case-by-case analysis to be done that don't resolve in a single, simple, univocally true pattern.

2. I said it in my previous message, it is not. Slowing down the exploitation of natural environments, trying to save diversity, try to save freshwater, planting forests, those are not just useful for our survival

3. Sure it makes a difference. If we are here, we interact with the rest of the biosphere, if we are not here, we don't. That makes a difference for every single being we come in contact with, directly or indirectly. In any ecosystem if you take a species out it makes a difference.

4. I didn't say it is impossible, quite the opposite. It is doable, we have quite some means to make things better, and that was kind of my point.

5. Don't you think that's a bit simplicistic? "give us the rule of law", "taking all the rulers and pointing the most lethal weapon there is in their face", that's not a plan, that's not an analysis, sorry, that's a fantasy. I'm not saying involving higher powers is something that should be ruled out, each one has his/her line of action, that is at the moment not mine.

Hope that makes it clearer =)

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