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The minsk agreement was forced on them and therefore has no value. If I force a contract on you at gun point (either physical, economical or psychological) this contract has no value. The same goes for countries.
Are nato hypocrites? Maybe. I believe we need a war to end the war. I believe that Nato and EU should immediately mobilize a million troops or two, and march through Ukraine and throw the russians out.
Yes, this will cost lives, but I view (...)
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@phagusX @bonifartius this are quickly pulling off the band aid, instead of letting this develop into a new Vietnam or Afghanistan for Putin.
That long drawn out war will lead to 100s of thousands of dead and long term suffering.
I think it is better for EU and Nato to drop the words and speak the only language Putins understands which is force.
Once EU and Nato join, russia will quickly be dismantled. Then the borders of Ukraine can be restored, russia will pay steep (...)
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@phagusX @bonifartius fines to finance rebuilding Ukraine. Putin will be killed or imprisoned for life and Russia can be guided into the european community where it belongs as an important member.
Once Putin is gone, slowly but surely, unless a Putin version 2 appears, russia will prosper.
+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
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@h4890
> Ah, but this is the fallacy of "whataboutism". Just because someone did something wrong in the past, does not mean that anyone has the right to do this without being criticized in the future.
well, if "the past" for historic events is a few months ago. we fucking bombed the middle east to shreds for decades, based on lies about WMD. i'm not talking about vietnam here.
> Yes, west has done horrible things, but that is in the past and we learned from our mistakes.
even the fucking greens are warmongers now, the same time they wave the rainbow flag. it's at best a disgrace. nobody learned a single thing.
> What russia is doing is still wrong, and they should pay compensation and withdraw. [...]
war is bad.
the west at least could be honest about that it doesn't care for the people of ukraine but that it's about geostrategic things. because if you care about people, you'd not have shelled 3rd world countries for the bigger part of the last century. the west is in no imaginable way morally better than russia now. the west only is triggerd because it's a western country now.
> Also, yes, there are western propaganda outlets, but freedom of press is way higher and censorship way lower in the west. If you are intelletcually honest it is very easy for you to get closer to the truth in the west compared with china or russia where censorship is heavy and you will be imprisoned for questioning the current status quo.
well, you just get cancelled in the west if you say the wrong things. that's of course better than rotting in jail and getting beaten up. the trend is to ban "misinformation" here, i can't see where that's not censorship. those ideas aren't a slippery slope, those ideas are a vertical cliff.
> your ideas about a war involving NATO to end the war
"the war to end all wars"? great idea, worked well in the past.
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> well, if "the past" for historic events is a few months ago. we fucking bombed the middle east to shreds for decades, based on lies about WMD. i'm not talking about vietnam here.
I'm not talking about that. I am talking about the current war in Ukraine, so I will just disregard this. My reference to Vietnam and Afghanistan I mean that this might be drawn out for Putins and lead to his downfall just like those two conflict led to difficulties for the (...)
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@bonifartius @phagusX governments that initiated them.
> the west at least could be honest about that it doesn't care for the people of ukraine...
Again whataboutism, I refuse to engage if you cannot provide proof that is not from Russian propaganda outlets.
> well, you just get cancelled in the west if you say the wrong things.
Incorrect. Somehow I always hear about people getting cancelled, yet, I can still follow them and their opinions if I choose to. If cancelled (...)
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@bonifartius @phagusX would be complete, I would not have that possibility. This is actually one benefit of the modern internet.
> "the war to end all wars"? great idea, worked well in the past.
You know what I mean and yet you choose to make the worst possible interpretation. I will not engage with you anymore unless you can step up to a mature conversation.
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@bonifartius @phagusX
Thank you and I hope you will have a pleasant afternoon. =)