:gondola_head: 🌿 
:ignutius: 
:stargate:
Total flatpak death.
>1GB of dependencies
>intel vaapi
Of course installing a single messaging software will download binary blobs and other crap.
I'm too lazy and worried right now to compile it myself so fuck it.
>intel vaapi
Of course installing a single messaging software will download binary blobs and other crap.
I'm too lazy and worried right now to compile it myself so fuck it.
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+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
Total flatpak death.
@mangeurdenuage delta chat
- is a single client implementation. bloated for no good reason.
- says they use mail as delivery mechanism, still implement their own bespoke server for more speed or something, throwing away their biggest selling argument
re: Total flatpak death.
@bonifartius
Jami is also bloat tho. But at least it doesn't pretend to not to be so.
Jami is also bloat tho. But at least it doesn't pretend to not to be so.
re: Total flatpak death.
@mangeurdenuage i cut jami some slack for being gnu adjacent ;)
i really have no idea why these things HAVE to be bloat. can't be the features. maybe it's just collected cargo cult of a decade, still i wonder how the devs can think "this is fine".
re: Total flatpak death.
@bonifartius
>i really have no idea why these things HAVE to be bloat
Jami just like delta have to be compatible with almost all OS and also web browsers.
All os compatible is already heave but the moment you start webshit compatibility it just enters it's blackhole phase.
>still i wonder how the devs can think "this is fine".
Performances aren't an issue when you don't use hardware from 2007 :^)
>i really have no idea why these things HAVE to be bloat
Jami just like delta have to be compatible with almost all OS and also web browsers.
All os compatible is already heave but the moment you start webshit compatibility it just enters it's blackhole phase.
>still i wonder how the devs can think "this is fine".
Performances aren't an issue when you don't use hardware from 2007 :^)
re: Total flatpak death.
re: Total flatpak death.
@mangeurdenuage @bonifartius
Jami is not just bloat, it's proprietary software. Don't ask me why it's a GNU project because your guess is as good as mine, it shouldn't be.
Jami is not just bloat, it's proprietary software. Don't ask me why it's a GNU project because your guess is as good as mine, it shouldn't be.
@sally @bonifartius Please elaborate because projects like Trisquel don't veto software that is proprietary and they build from source.
@mangeurdenuage @bonifartius
Upstream is hosted on Gitlab instead of Savannah, which requires javashit to browse. They killed their old clients and replaced them with webshit written in Microsoft Typescript, they suggest to use Docker to deploy these on their docs and distribute Winblows, iOS and Android clients. Checking any of these on the list already makes it proprietary, all of them make it absolutely proprietary, when a program is inconvenient to make it free then it means it's proprietary by spirit, shit like Jami is exactly that.
Time to switch to XMPP.
Upstream is hosted on Gitlab instead of Savannah, which requires javashit to browse. They killed their old clients and replaced them with webshit written in Microsoft Typescript, they suggest to use Docker to deploy these on their docs and distribute Winblows, iOS and Android clients. Checking any of these on the list already makes it proprietary, all of them make it absolutely proprietary, when a program is inconvenient to make it free then it means it's proprietary by spirit, shit like Jami is exactly that.
Time to switch to XMPP.
@sally @bonifartius
>Checking any of these on the list already makes it proprietary
>which requires javashit to browse
JS is not more proprietary than you and me, it's bloated, especially gitlab, but the JS code is under GPL.
>They killed their old clients
There was a reason for that and that's because they got fucked by trademark trolls.
>written in Microsoft Typescript
And it's under a compatible license, even the compiler.
>they suggest to use Docker to deploy these on their docs
Yes and ? Docker isn't proprietary. It's again a design choice, an optional one in this case.
> and distribute Winblows, iOS and Android clients
Yes and ? The software is still GPL.
I don't agree with these OS but realize that having users using free/libre software that you also have on GNU/linux makes it surprisingly easy to migrate them to a GNU/linux distro since they have little muscle memory to re learn due to the fact they can use the same software with the same GUI.
>Checking any of these on the list already makes it proprietary
>which requires javashit to browse
JS is not more proprietary than you and me, it's bloated, especially gitlab, but the JS code is under GPL.
>They killed their old clients
There was a reason for that and that's because they got fucked by trademark trolls.
>written in Microsoft Typescript
And it's under a compatible license, even the compiler.
>they suggest to use Docker to deploy these on their docs
Yes and ? Docker isn't proprietary. It's again a design choice, an optional one in this case.
> and distribute Winblows, iOS and Android clients
Yes and ? The software is still GPL.
I don't agree with these OS but realize that having users using free/libre software that you also have on GNU/linux makes it surprisingly easy to migrate them to a GNU/linux distro since they have little muscle memory to re learn due to the fact they can use the same software with the same GUI.
@mangeurdenuage @bonifartius
> just like I ask people to use jami because that's the main thing i use.
He definitely doesn't know.
> just like I ask people to use jami because that's the main thing i use.
He definitely doesn't know.
re: Total flatpak death.
@bonifartius @mangeurdenuage to be fair their bespoke thing is still just a plain dovecot smtp server with scripted addons like permissionless automatic registration and filters on it to make sure only encrypted messages are accepted or relayed
re: Total flatpak death.
@i @bonifartius so pgp mail but much worse
re: Total flatpak death.
@mangeurdenuage @bonifartius maybe so, but worse is better for the normies on ios who installed it, scanned my qr code, and never had it fail since
people will write leaner clients when there's a need for them, at least the foundation is there for them to be created after
people will write leaner clients when there's a need for them, at least the foundation is there for them to be created after
re: Total flatpak death.
@i @bonifartius
10+ years ago I would have never said this.
Normies should not be the ones who do configurations.
I am now convinced that normies should not configure anything and let someone technically competent to do the work.
Of course that doesn't mean that it's a barrier to the average joe to learn. But if they don't want to learn, stfu and pay a tech to do it, and the tech should stfu and pay the developers to maintain the code.
10+ years ago I would have never said this.
Normies should not be the ones who do configurations.
I am now convinced that normies should not configure anything and let someone technically competent to do the work.
Of course that doesn't mean that it's a barrier to the average joe to learn. But if they don't want to learn, stfu and pay a tech to do it, and the tech should stfu and pay the developers to maintain the code.
re: Total flatpak death.
@i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage Their thing is also horrible to install on anything that isn't Debian and explicitly Debian 12.
re: Total flatpak death.
@i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage At least it is completely unnecessary and only a good-to-have on a server install.
re: Total flatpak death.
@phnt @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage someone will write a single static binary version eventually, let he who doesn't run a single vm/container cast the first stone at them for targeting a single distro
re: Total flatpak death.
@i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage There are two different implementations from the original now I think. One is Mox or something like that written in Go and I forgot the name of the other one.
bakkaball nigga 
@phnt @i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage https://github.com/foxcpp/maddy
https://github.com/mjl-/mox
I'd probably migrate my postfix/dovecot shitheap to either of them but i'm reluctant due to both of them having the mark of fluoride that is builtin ACME client.
https://github.com/mjl-/mox
I'd probably migrate my postfix/dovecot shitheap to either of them but i'm reluctant due to both of them having the mark of fluoride that is builtin ACME client.
@mint @i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage I don't really want to redo my email setup since I know how to get postfix/dovecot running properly now and all the quirks which come with it. Redoing it throws all of that away.
>maddy
No mention of `sieve` in docs. DoA.
>maddy
No mention of `sieve` in docs. DoA.
statistics be raysist cuh 
@mint @i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage A mail filtering language and I have multiple rulesets written in it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_(mail_filtering_language)
@phnt @i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage At least supports milters so you could plug rspamd or something.
@phnt @bonifartius @mint @mangeurdenuage anti spam is fediblock levels of lame for personal use anyway, accept the cheap viagra mail into your heart and all will be alright
@i @phnt @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage The only spam problem I have is on a mailbox I put in whois of .us domain that's been expired for years. Still receiving it.
@mint @i @phnt @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage I have been geting spam from china in japanese for some reason.
@mint @i @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage I use it for automatically moving mail into proper folders instead of dumping everything into my inbox (mailing lists and more). Spam isn't an issue for me as I don't get any.
@i @phnt @mint @mangeurdenuage the most reliable way for me to reduce spam has been greylisting. RBLs did jack shit, greylisting made that i get one spam a week. apparently viagra salesmen are bad with "try again later" :)
@bonifartius @i @phnt @mint @mangeurdenuage A lot of spam is delivered by poorly written SMTP scripts that do SMTP incorrectly and send to port 25 unencrypted in one shot, not bothering to re-attempt delivery.
@Suiseiseki @i @phnt @mint @mangeurdenuage yup. the remaining spam if from gmail and outlook 
re: Total flatpak death.
@phnt @bonifartius @mangeurdenuage that and maddy, https://github.com/mjl-/mox/issues/251, and other basic setups like mailinabox or mailcow or yunohost without the scripting to integrate into the network publicly
most of the work is just making it alright for open access, since mailing is still so icky, maybe they'll actually do mail2000 eventually and port 25/465 won't be an immediate issue too
most of the work is just making it alright for open access, since mailing is still so icky, maybe they'll actually do mail2000 eventually and port 25/465 won't be an immediate issue too
re: Total flatpak death.
@i @phnt @mangeurdenuage on servers i own, i don't run vms or containers :)
re: Total flatpak death.