🇳🇱
I think I am very unusual in the sense that I believe abortions should be tax-paid, free to everyone, and pregnancy tests should also be free.... BUT I also think abortion should be very limited, to something around the first **10 weeks** at most.
I've had both right and left leaning folks loose their shit over that. Always entertaining
@realcaseyrollins It is the only solution Ic an think of that addresses both sides of the concern on abortion.... It addresses a womans right to choice, as well as ensuring the fetus has protections on its life that are science based (protected once neurons develop)
@freemo Science-based might be a bit much, as scientifically, life begins at conception. Your position is based on an opinion on when a human being begins to have personhood, rather than a purely scientific stance.
@realcaseyrollins to be doubly clear personhood and "life" were both concepts I in no way addressed or even see as relevant. What matters is self-determination, consciousness and though. of which you need a brain to have any of those.
@freemo @realcaseyrollins "thought" and "consciousness" are things on a list of differences between a 5 week fetus and an adult. This list also includes things like "size" and "experiences" and "independence" – (some people use those instead).
All the things on this list generally end up being problematic to use in this way.
For example: "consciousness" – someone who is asleep or in a coma doesn't have that, but we would consider killing someone in those states to be murder. And so on.
"consciousness absolutely doesnt exist" so sort of a "better safe than sorry" approach?
But that's still my point: even if we know consciousness doesn't exist at N weeks, that doesn't matter – using consciousness for this question is ghastly.
I listed three properties, not sure why your focusing on that one (other than its the easier one to attack).. .the point is, if youa rent capable of thought, awareness, suffering, emotions, if you dont have a brain your safe to kill... If you do there is some point its not ok and that point is unknown and cant be easier defined.
So the approach is simple, pick a timeline that garuntees everyone gets a fair shake
@freemo @realcaseyrollins I picked it pretty much randomly; they're all pretty easy to attack, I think.
We don't murder people who can't think, temporarily, for some reason. (Coma again, I guess?) etc.
@ech
Which is the point. My core argument is not dependent on defining the moment consciousness exists. It is only dependent on defining when consciousness absolutely doesnt exist (on the obvious fact that when you dont have a brain yet you cant be conscious). The idea being you cant have any of those properties prior to you developing neurons, ergo abortion prior to 10 weeks is garunteed to be morally safe regardless of the ambiguity as to when any of those properties kick in.
@realcaseyrollins