Erik Haugen @ech@qoto.org

@TootUncommon@mstdn.party heh, I think US history classes sometimes err on that side. less so in the last few decades etc.

@TootUncommon@mstdn.party early on that wasn't really true, I think; it was more widespread. But to your point we had a civil war (at least partly) about it, while Germany didn't.

I'm not sure how germane to OP this is, though – the point is do we teach our history honestly?

(I think we have a lot of room for improvement, but do far better than you'd think after reading this thread 😂 )

@TootUncommon@mstdn.party The myth is that US can do no wrong and our history is a beacon of righteousness in a world of brutality and suffering.

Pretty much nowhere in the US in the last few decades, I think. I was in elementary school in the 80s, I think my history classes made some wars like the Mexican–American war or Philippines look like we were the good guys, but they sure taught about slavery; not at all the experience you'd think after reading this thread.

There were textbooks used in some places like 50 years ago that try to make slavery look like a benevolent thing.

@unearth Don't we? I was trad-style homeschooled and I sure did. What do they teach you guys in public schools!

@PublicLewdness It's funny when someone complains about something literally by doing the exact thing they're complaining about.

@quercus24
So we have these three ~facts
* old people are more likely to vote
* young people are less likely to be "conservative"
* Johnson (admittedly?) was trying to squelch young people vote (very patronizing, in addition to shady)

But what I said could still be true: it just doesn't work. Even if some of Johnson's aides admit intent.

In the past, voter suppression was more effective: you have to own land, or the ids cost money, or straight-up poll taxes, or ... But these days it seems like voter id laws just don't really work as a suppression tactic. (I don't know whether they work for other purposes, so I'm not like trying to argue for voter id laws here.)

@collectedoverspread I'm not sure if it has an official name, other than like "missing the point".

It needs a bit more to be a good argument: it implies that a law won't do X amount of good; ok fine – the obvious thing you need to examine is how much good, <X, *will* it do, then? And weight that against the costs. So it's like just the first part of a coherent argument, at best.

@sully1503@mastodon.online Isn't this a reasonable thing to do? Why is this shameful?

@quercus24 Are you worried about perpetuating this sort of stereotype that conservatives are more likely to have their act together enough to do basic adulty things like get a free id, register, and mail in their ballots? IOW if conservatives (Tories? Whatever you call them over there) are actually doing this for this reason – will it work? It sounds... unlikely.

I mean, maybe your point remains that it is a pointless barrier to voting, and bad just for that reason, but does it really bias the results of elections?

Here's a study (US, but still) showing that yes, despite what old curmudgeons think of kids and hippies, progressives can actually manage to vote even in the face of such overwhelming odds: https://www.cato.org/blog/do-voter-id-laws-matter-much. (Link has an amusing anecdote about DeSantis' ballot getting thrown out.)

@AstraKernel support for floats is a separate library you have to explicitly link in because it is so huge. That is very thoughtful.

@apl_discussions or std::vector

@apl_discussions If you're wondering where the name for C++'s std::iota() comes from, now you know.

@dclr42 heh it's easier to do pretty much everything. 😂

@rdaily phenylephrine in particular, not all cold meds. #NotAllColdMeds

@quercus24 driving licenses I'm guessing cost a lot more than that if you also count the classes & training? 😂

Is there a free easy-to-get alternative? I know in some times & places it hasn't been, so that's a poll tax.

@freemo yeah the identity-lefty movement that's kind of picking up steam in the last decade or so does not tolerate dissent.

The thinking is roughly: everything anyone does is about identity oppression, so if you disagree with me about anything, you must therefore be an oppressor, i.e. a Nazi. Punch Nazis.

There is no room for nuance.

They have a huge presence on the main Mastodon instances.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it really makes it weird when you're debating something banal like minimum wage.

@ZhiZhu This strip sort of glosses over some important free speech issues. The idea of losing your job for something you say, for example, is a big deal; establishing norms around what justifies that kind of response, whether those responses do more harm than good, etc are important conversations.