@adiz @don @rbe_expert not at all. I would feel the same about any country killing people that want to be free. It just so happens that I have a particulary long history with ruZZia an md ruZZian lies

@extrn@qoto.org What do you think should be done to a country like Russia for what they're doing? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Nothing *should* be done to a country. The tzar will fall off a window when they lose the war. There will be a brief struggle between the oligarchs (because in their authoritarian government there are no rules of succession) and then a fission process will occur, splitting Chechnia and other parst of ruZZia. It is possible China to take Siberia. So what they deserve will happen all by itself. What should be done is just one thing - help them lose the war

@extrn@qoto.org When do you imagine all of this will happen? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert It depends on the western support for Ukraine. The west has been very shy in that support. It is telling when you review the support by % of GDP: the former eastern bloc leads: All small countries that know what to expect from the empire. Meanwhile the likes of Macron and Sholtz are playing politics an "talking on the phone" and "keeping the channels open". Clowns. US has their own reasons for their support - they already carried the burden of one cold war - perhaps they don't want another.

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I can only hope this will be resolved quickly - within 5 years. But I am afraid it will not. So instead of doing something productive we are paying a ruZZian tax - because the fucking ruZZians are stupid and can't understand the first thing about dictatorships...

@extrn@qoto.org "Paying a [Russian] tax"? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert the economy will be working on producing weapons instead of more productive things. I call it ruZZian tax. The war can end tomorrow, if putler withdraws from Ukraine, but that's impossible for him. He's manucered himself into a corner - if he withdraws, he'll fall from the nearest window... And there is no way anyone recognizing an illegal annexation. Just a little solidarity and support is required. Unfortunately I see a lot of weasel words and careful calcularltions... I hope at some point the west understandd how important this is.

@extrn
Russians aren't stupid, most are just brainwashed and we've never had strong democratic institutions and democratic tradition to counter the authoritarian power grab to begin with.
Making Russia lose the war isn't too hard, it'll probably happen this year, but what's next? Fixing Russia in it's current form isn't possible. Splitting it into a dozen of smaller states the size of Poland like your said is probably the best way, each of these states will barely have the resources to wage wars and if some of them will get just as corrupt, some probably won't. But who and how is going to implement it? It's a complex task that has to be carried out for decades and no one in the West is exactly eager to do that. Just leaving it be is also not an option — having a civil war in a country that has stashes of Soviet-era military equipment is hardly better than what we have today. I personally doubt that Russia even has any operational strategic nuclear weapons. Servicing those requires huge sums of money, at the same time there is no visible output. I know how corrupt this country is very well so those funds most probably got completely stolen. But still, not a single person in the world is going to put their money on it. No one is going to act as if there are no nuclear weapons. Even if there are none, there are nuclear power plants, catastrophe on one of those in a war-torn country doesn't sound too good, right?
The West, including the US, is not interested in all that, they'll be fine with Russia as it is and will probably do everything to keep it together, just replacing Putin with someone who is slightly less nuts, so they can get back to business as usual as soon as possible. But in this case this cycle is bound to repeat itself again and again.
@adiz @don @rbe_expert

@extrn@qoto.org I wouldn't exactly call the support "shy"---the United States has spent more on Ukraine in a year than they did over a decade in their war against Afghanistan. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert USA still refuse to provide more effective weapons like ATACMS. Ukraine needs also abilities to hit deep inside ruZZian territory: to destroy airstrips for strategic bombers and training centers.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't want America to provide more money and weapons to Ukraine. I'm already upset that America has spent the amount of tax dollars on some corrupt Eastern European rotating-puppet-state that they have. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert And what state that will be? And if you don't do it now, eventually you'll have to do it - just like in WW2. And it will be much more expensive. I think the american administration understands this very well, but they move slowly because of politics - both internal and international.

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Much like our government here. Officially - not sending weapons so the ruZZian puppets here are happy. Unofficially - top supporter of Ukraine during the initial critical phase of the war last year. That no doubt was the cause of the government fall. Since then we are under interim gov. managed by a pro-ruzzian president that creates chaos in the country and destroys the democratic institutions.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't think we will have to do anything at all. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Not helping Ukraine means ruZZia taking it. Then Moldova. Increasing their influence. Getting cocky. Starting shit in US (Trump). It is vastly more expensive than just proving them wrong right in the spot of their first transgression. (not that it's their first - they already escalated from human rights issues in the 2000s to the war with Georgia, to the poisonings on western soil, to annexations of Crimea and starting shit in Donbas, to elections interference in US and otger countries...). Much cheaper to kill 500000 orcs and be done with it.

@extrn@qoto.org We aren't taking anything. Pretty racist of you to refer to Slavic people's as "orcs". You're clearly a typical European supremacist. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I do not refer to slavic people as orcs. I'm slavic people... :) ruZZian rapists in Ukraine are orcs. Ask anyone ghat cares. .

@extrn @adiz @don From my perspective as a Marxist this whole war is a huge tragedy that didn't need to happen if the USSR's regime had not been revisionist Stalinists who decided to undemocratically dissolve itself to allow its bureaucracy to profit off of privatization. The Ukraine War is the result of capitalist imperialism of NATO / the West seeking to assimilate Russia and then China into its territory and control to protect itself against collapse.

@extrn @adiz @don This becomes obvious once you read this:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

@rbe_expert @adiz @don we have a saying here that sounds like: "don't sell cucumbers to an old cucumberman". You are a hobbist marxist. I've lived through that shit... You are very much mistaken and wrong about many things. You are happy to be able to discuss your (backward) views in a free forum - a luxury you wouldn't have under any totalitarian ideology. According to Trotsky (for example) the likes of me will regretfully have to be exterminated :) I'd very much like that, obviously :))))

@extrn @adiz @don You lived through obvious revisionism that had nothing to do with the Marxism of Lenin and Trotsky, who liberated millions from the murderous Tsar.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don and you live through a degenerate capitalist state - not the perfect utopia Ain Rand invented...

@rbe_expert @adiz @don They liberated noone but then murdered some more... Lenin's bolsheviks seized the revolution and took the power instead of providing it to everyone through free elections. They are the same power-hungry murderers as the tzarist predecessors. Actually - not the same - much worse

@extrn @adiz @don Please provide quote from Trotsky that you claim exists.

@extrn @adiz @don Especially since Trotsky was a Ukrainian Jew. LOL.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don Well, do you think there is a non-violent solution of the labor problem? Or of the problem any dissenter presents? Because, why should anyone work if everyone is provided for? How does that work out in your head?

@rbe_expert @extrn @adiz @don when the war broke out initially, i was active in the local support for ukraine in my country (still am). to this day, i have not seen a worse consideration of facts and people than the one that the local marxist organisation gave. people were dying and they couldnt even bear to call them people, just workers

@errante@rot.gives Workers are people. The distinction (and tragedy) is that it's the workers (the proletariat class) suffering and dying for the benefit of oligarchs, corporate interests, and geopolitical agendas which they are uninvolved in and do not benefit from. @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @extrn@qoto.org @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @errante @don @rbe_expert sure, sure. I distinctly remember not being involved in a totalitarian state at all... It didn't concern me at all being force-fed propaganda and lies... Maybe because of that I will now not hesitate at all to kill any ruZZian pig trying to enslave me again...

@extrn @adiz @errante@rot.gives @don You are obviously confused about what your experience means. It's easy to get confused because capitalist media and propaganda consistently blatantly lies to us, systematically.

@adiz @errante @don @rbe_expert It's funny how you, the marxists, treat the people like livestock - as if they don't have agency but are a faceless mass of "workers" - subject to your analisys... You look so much like the capitalists you are so much against. And what I can't bear is seizing the voice of those people and speaking on their behalf. That's so fucked up...

@extrn @adiz @errante@rot.gives @don People are objective facts in the world and are therefore subject to analysis. This isn't that surprising. And necessary for those of us who genuinely want to reduce unnecessary suffering for people.

@adiz @don @rbe_expert @extrn yes all workers are people but if you focus on their societal function as their primary discerning trait, can you really say you care?

@errante@rot.gives It's not about societal function, it's about economic class. We exist within a modern caste of sorts based on class. Building consciousness of the division and one's place and exploitation within this system, and developing solidarity amongst one another, allows organization against the hierarchy. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @extrn@qoto.org

@rbe_expert @adiz @don as a marxist you are an embarasment to the whole humankind. Period :)

@extrn @adiz @don ok we all know you're against progress and in favor of defeatism in the face of mankind's problems

@rbe_expert @adiz @don And you are a completely rational person, that happens to think there is a magical solution to all problems and it is as simple as erradicating capitalism and putting everyone in a giant labor camp...

@rbe_expert @adiz @don So NATO started the war... Diesn't strike me as something a sane person would say....

@extrn@qoto.org Gee, I don't know, it's not like there was a CIA sponsored coup that toppled the pro-Russian government in 2014 and installed a radically pro-Western regime which purged the officer corps, immediately began antagonisms on the Eastern borders, and destroyed decades of Ukrainian-Russian cooperation or anything. @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @don @rbe_expert dou you have any evidence? Because of experience I can tell you it is far more likely the educated Ukrainians living in big cities envisioned themselves as part of Europe with freedom to go wherever they like, work whatever they want and live their lives as they please, than deciding to join an authoritarian pigsty.

@extrn @adiz @don So they needed to foment unrest in the streets of Kiev and coup the government. That was their solution to that.

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I am also curious, what do you imagine is an European supremacist? I confess I hear of this lunacy for the first time :)

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Sad truth is, freedom has to be forcibly accuired. People that get their freedom by someone tend to lose it quickly. But the free nations has the obligation to support that struggle. Ukraine now has the potential to turn really free, independant and strong country. It will all pay out.