@extrn @adiz @don From my perspective as a Marxist this whole war is a huge tragedy that didn't need to happen if the USSR's regime had not been revisionist Stalinists who decided to undemocratically dissolve itself to allow its bureaucracy to profit off of privatization. The Ukraine War is the result of capitalist imperialism of NATO / the West seeking to assimilate Russia and then China into its territory and control to protect itself against collapse.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don So NATO started the war... Diesn't strike me as something a sane person would say....

@extrn@qoto.org Gee, I don't know, it's not like there was a CIA sponsored coup that toppled the pro-Russian government in 2014 and installed a radically pro-Western regime which purged the officer corps, immediately began antagonisms on the Eastern borders, and destroyed decades of Ukrainian-Russian cooperation or anything. @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @don @rbe_expert dou you have any evidence? Because of experience I can tell you it is far more likely the educated Ukrainians living in big cities envisioned themselves as part of Europe with freedom to go wherever they like, work whatever they want and live their lives as they please, than deciding to join an authoritarian pigsty.

@extrn @adiz @don So they needed to foment unrest in the streets of Kiev and coup the government. That was their solution to that.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don who are "they"? And solution to what? And do yoj have any evidence? Because I can tell you - nobody needs to foment anything with me - the moment the orcs try to take my freedom they'll die

@extrn @adiz @don These "educated Ukrainians living in big cities" that you speak of

@rbe_expert @adiz @don these are people that do not want to have their lifes stollen by a dictatorship. I tell you - no sane person who lived in eastern Europe will ever want to join ruZZian sphere of influence.

@extrn @adiz @don The old Ukrainian regime was at least as democratic as the new Ukrainian regime, which bans worker strikes and leftist opposition parties.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don old regime was also fond of snipers killing protesters as far as I remember. I also remember poisoning politicians... And if you want to see what Ukraine would have been now, look no further than Belarus. I don't know why you are so drawn to dictators. Why don't you go to live there? It is easy recommending "workers" do it, why don't you give an example? You are too comfortable enjoying the freedom of the west, while talking shit about it... I believe Popper concluded you should not be given that opportunity... So just go ti ruZZia or Noth Korea to educate tha "workers"

@extrn @adiz @don Evidence of snipers?

@rbe_expert @adiz @don dead bodies

@extrn@qoto.org Evidence of dead bodies? @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @don @rbe_expert so you lost the ability to google?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maidan_casualties

@extrn @adiz @don Wasn't this during the riots that forced the government to flee the building?

@rbe_expert @adiz @don wasn't this during the Yanukovich betrayal that forced the riots?

@extrn @adiz @don What betrayal? So you couldn't wait to simply have another election?

@rbe_expert @adiz @don because the traitor broke the negotiations with EU and moved swiftly to ruZZia... why didn't he wait for elections? You are too appologetic of dictators. Are you sure you are marxist? You look like a putler shill

@extrn@qoto.org Ukraine was already geopolitically aligned with Russia. So, if you brand someone a "traitor" and muddy the waters with prerogatives then it's okay to throw a violent coup and overthrow a stable government (assuming it's backed by and beneficial to Western interests)? Funny how these "rules" work! @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Bullshit. Ukraine was in negotiations for integration with EU. That's what the people expected and I'd be shocked to learn putler didn't know.

@extrn@qoto.org You are just going to make up whatever "rules" or justifications or excuses you need to keep your viewpoint on the "win". You've moved goalposts across this playing field so many times the grass has muddied. You really have zero foundation. Discussing things with you is like "pulling teeth", or akin to negotiating with a toddler. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert again bullshit. The negotiations with EU were actually complete. Just a few days before sighing Yanukovich turned to putler. How that sounds to you? ... speaking of toddlers... "the capitalist media" excuse is so deeply integrated in your mind that you refuse to see even basic facts. Putler tried to grab Ukraine. He failed, so he startrd a war. Grow up!

@extrn@qoto.org I'm not going to discuss anything further. You refuse to accept any level playing field for conversation. You won't make any concessions. You outright refused to even consider any equivalency or equality in geopolitical parallels. You won't accept anything that grains against the blinders you've installed on yourself. There is no point in conversing with a fanatic. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert At what point you were "discussing"? You resoned from the position of the invisible purple unicorn.... Putler is a dictator and terrorist. You don't agree? Fine - you can d go to Muhosransk to grow turnips in a comune I am not going to accept the point of view of murderers and terrorists. I know too well the likes of you FROM EXPERIENCE in real life!

@extrn @adiz @don Why are you so obsessed with only one country's evils and not the entire capitalist system's evils?

@rbe_expert @adiz @don because from the point of view of the individual ("worker") it matters very much on which side of the border they'll happen to end. I'm not going to accept any concessions to terrorists and murderers. For you, it seems, the individual happiness has no meaning and these struggles are just a meaningless distraction from the grand fight against capitalism... It all very conveniently coincides with positions of dictators and terrorists: "it all does not matter, as long as there is capitalist oppression"... It is a stupid, fanatical point. Not all evils are equal... some are more equal (if you allow me the reference).

@extrn @adiz @don You seem unaware of how many people die every year under so-called "enlightened", "peaceful", "relaxed" Western capitalism. Let me help you understand the brutality:
https://youtu.be/ClLKm8Q8Pns

@rbe_expert @adiz @don Read "The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined". It may change your catastrophic views.

@extrn @adiz @don

@extrn @adiz @don Things aren't getting better.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don that's just in USA. It'a not the whole world. USA has these backward notions regarding healthcare and education...

@extrn @adiz @don The reason we have these backward notions is because we spend all our money on military to dominate other countries and put down socialist notions everywhere else in the world, and we make sure we can do this by radicalizing our people with extreme right-wing propaganda and nationalism so they won't question whether capitalism is the reason everything sucks.

@extrn @adiz @don In order for us to be the imperial enforcer, we need to convince our people that we don't deserve nice things except through a heroic individual struggle that makes it all but impossible for most to actually achieve the things they need on a consistent basis.

@extrn @adiz @don Doing this allows our government to WITHHOLD money and resources from our own people and use them instead to wage global war on everyone else who questions the hegemony of capitalism.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don You are so naive, "si vis pacem, para bellum" as the romans said. You are staring at the consequences of demilitarization: in tge last 30 years the European NATO members stopped spending the required 2% of the GDP on military capabilities. And what do we get? A dictator, trying to destroy an independent country, committing genocide and war crimes. Thank god there is the US! I hope Europe learns the lesson.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don Military spending is a tax, worth paying. An actual war is much more expensive, as putler is about to learn.

@extrn @adiz @don The huge military spending helps nobody but the rich who are doing this to expand their empire, and it's not helping the working class who are being denied funding for meeting human needs. You're in denial about how disgusting this is. The rich do not care about us, they pretend to, they make symbolic gestures, but not MATERIAL ones.

@rbe_expert @adiz @don Btw: when talking about people it is distasteful to consider onky their class but not individuality. Every action is performed by individuals, not classes. To say that one class does something to another is a crude simplification which aims for creating hatred and division. Crimes are performed by individuals, not classes.