The thing is I'm an exceptionally reasonable person, but I have my thoughts and views as well, many of which I talk about on here.

Now, from what I understand an 'ally' to be, it's a person that advocates for one that comes from a different background than them.

I would think part of this experience includes actually acknowledging the views, thoughts and reservations of the person they are allegedly advocating for.

If this doesn't happen, I don't view a person as an 'ally'.

One of my biggest motivations on here is to build bridges with people not only that are like myself, but people that aren't. I think that is the way forward.

However, that does not mean I am going to automatically assume that everyone that approaches me claiming to be an 'ally' or whatever are coming from the same place as I am.

My desire to connect with other marginalized people does not override my caution and experiences.

So yeah, folks have to earn that trust.

One of the groups I have always had reservations about were white queers for reasons I spoke on earlier.

I think there is an expectation that I will automatically side with them because they assume that we share the same marginalized experience. We don't.

This is not to say their experiences don't matter to me. Of course they do.

But they can and will choose their whiteness over empathizing over other marginalized groups.

So I generally tread cautiously.

I understand it upsets a lot of people to hear me talk about having reservations about another marginalized group, but racism and bigotry don't simply go away. That is the reality of my experience.

As an 'ally' if you ignore this, you're simply showing me that you're not about what I'm about. Wether it is intentionally or not, ignoring my concerns for the sake of this assumed 'allyship' is a non-starter for me.

Either you see me or you don't. There is no middle ground.

I do not want the advocacy of anyone that will ignore my concerns for the sake of their own and call it 'diversity'.

I'm willing to talk to anyone about how to bridge these gaps, but yes, I am going to say some things that you don't like. Creating a diverse community isn't always going to be a smooth experience. People are people.

But in my opinion, community is not about people compromising who they are, but doing the work to _understand_ where they are at.

In my experience the idea and culture of whiteness has always been directly opposed to understanding people, even the ones who practice it, instead preferring compliance for false peace.

And yes, a lot of white queers subscribe to this ideology even though they claim to want to work with other marginalized peoples.

This has to be reckoned with if we're going to get anywhere.

And I'm not going to soft sell it b/c people want to perform their 'allyship'.

I'm not that guy.

@Are0h Can you give an example of how the "culture of whiteness" is opposed to understanding people?

@freemo The Holocaust, The Middle Passage, The Trail of Tears, etc...

@Are0h Those are historical events that white people have carried out for sure. But I'm not sure that equates to being white "culture". There are plenty of atrocities that were carried out in the past from non-white societies as well but I wouldn't say those events describe those societies "culture" either.

@freemo You can believe whatever you like, but the current POTUS and the rise of hate crime in States is an indicator of those some traits being a point of community for people that identify as white.

And please spare me the bullshit about other non-white societies. The reality is that white people to this day still benefit from the horrors the inflicted upon the world in the past and present.

If you myopia won't let you see the commonality in those actions, that is your problem

@Are0h I never said whites (or any race) were innocent for the horrible things they do. I only claim there is a distinction between that and the "culture" of the society.

For a counter example we just have to look at the huge african-american violence rate, way higher than any other race including whites and other minorities.

If i were to use your logic I would say that "African Americans have a culture of violence", which i think would be a horribly racist way to view it (just as your own view appears racist to me). Instead I see it as a problem stemming from many issues (including the fact that they have a higher poverty rate) that doesnt excuse them from it, but does help clarify that it isnt culture but rather circumstances that has created that. Not to mention that it doesnt even apply to most.

I would say the same for whites; while they certainly have their issues those stem far more from circumstances that have arisen and perpetuated than being inherently part of their culture.

@freemo @Are0h

From what I see, which I in no way claim being in depth analysation, there are whites and whites in your equation. Those that executed (colonialisation, holocaust, etc.) and those that enabled or led people into this. Even if it's more of a reaction, that reaction seems to me habitual enough to make it culture. A culture of conformity over everything while letting this excuse our actions.

@kafkaesqueNomad @Are0h Yea I somewhat agree. It certainly is far far too common. While I wouldnt call it "culture" it is at least a pattern of behavior and that is concerning.

With that said I'd say it is a pattern of behavior that is exhibited by the whole human civilization, people of all races. It is hardly unique to whites.