So apparently they're trying to organize a global strike for the #environment in September. This time with adults.
https://globalclimatestrike.net/
#ClimateChange #ClimateStrike
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@stevenroose A strike as "a refusal to work organized by a body of employees as a form of protest, typically in an attempt to gain a concession or concessions from their employer."... Who is the employer here, who are the employees, and what exactly is their demands?
I support any organization for climate change but it depends on these details of course. I see Greta's picture on the front of the page which instantly has me concerned of the direction and ethics. She took a pretty damaging stance/response to address climate change so I'd be hesitant to support this specific movement, though perhaps im wrong, im willing to hear more.
@freemo
Not a strike in the employer-employee sense. But in a citizen/government sense, like "a refusal to work organized by a body of citizens as a form of protest, in an attempt to gain a concession or concessions from their government".
It's a good initiative to give leaders a mandate to take more fierce action against pollution. Only they can solve this crisis and they keep using the excuses that there is no political support for stronger action. We show then there is.
@stevenroose In general I can get behind that. So the idea is the citizens refuse to go to work, any work, until the government does what we demand? What do we demand? Are the people really prepared to be out of work that long? Because i doubt the governments will cave so we are talking a lot of people out of work for a long time.
Aside from Greta herself I like what im hearing so far.
@freemo
I don't think the idea is to stop working the entire week. But to urge local communities to organize strikes/protests on days within that week and for local workers to join those.
Correct me if I'm wrong though. I'm curious to see if there'll be any protests where I'm living and I'll gladly join them.
@stevenroose I'd join them to. Only thing that would cause me not to join them is if Greta was a spokesperson for them or otherwise endorsed by them. Otherwise I support it.
@freemo
What's wrong with Greta?
@stevenroose Mostly that she takes an anti-education stance which to me is more damaging than an anti-climate stance.
Saying "I want to bring awareness to climate by encouraging everyone to boycott education/school every friday" sounds extremly harmful. It would be like an educator bringing awareness to education by saying "I want to bring awareness to education by encouraging people every friday to dump toxic waste into their local river"
Encouraging something harmful to the community as a form of protest against something harmful to the community is a failed tactic.
@freemo @stevenroose
I'm not aware she is against education.
Liking a climate-change post on FB or retweeting a tweet about it, is about the extend to which 'protest' has been done so far.
As has become painfully obvious, that hasn't changed a single thing. What will cause representatives to get into action is massive societal disruption.
Kids are teaching the adults here.
An argument I've heard from kids: what's the point of education if there isn't a livable world to apply that knowledge.
If they want to protest it then why get out of school why not go on the weekends to show us they are really committed. If they are taking off school its kind of negating any good they do. When I was a kid if I could get an excuse to get a day off school I would.
I'm sorry I just cant respect that message.
@freemo
I agree with @FreePietje here. The only reason they have gotten so much media attention is because they skipped school. And please don't come tell us that "skipping school" is such a harmful act that will undermine their education. As a student that never skipped school but also never joined any political action, I believe it would have enriched me more to have had that experience instead of not missing those few classes.
Well yea when you act like a child and become destructive (telling people to skip school) yea you will get attention for sure.
If someone trying to bring awareness to education urged people to dump toxic waste into a river every friday I can garuntee you he would get WAY more attention too.
Getting attention is not a good measure in isolation sadly.
@freemo
I absolutely disagree with your comparison, btw. It doesn't make sense. They are harming no one with skipping a few Fridays. Dumping toxic waste in a river can directly harm an entire city.
I think you're trying to be too principled here, without a real underlying reason. Perhaps jealousy.
You're from the US, perhaps your high-school experience is different. Where I'm from (Belgium) and where Greta's from (Sweden), skipping some Fridays don't matter. At all.
@FreePietje
I disagree that they are harming no one. Kids are already coming out of school dumb as bricks. Greta of all people was moving to a special needs school she fell so far behind. The damage is very real and in fact the underlieing cause of the climate issue. We need more education, more study, more rigour and understanding, not less.
If school really doesnt matter in sweden and belgium then you have a serious issue with your school system not educating student and that needs to be addressed. All the more so a message of "just skip school" has no place there if school is already doing poorly. If anything the message should be "study harder in school"
@freemo
My point was that schools here work very well. We learn whatever we need to learn, whether or not we skip those few Fridays.
When workers strike, some machines in the factory shut down. When many pupils are absent (whether sick or striking), teachers won't be teaching the most important subjects those days. And if they did, there is ample opportunity to catch up on lost classes.
All I'm saying is that you exaggerate the importance of those Fridays. Let's leave it at that.
@FreePietje
Thats not the impression I get. Aside from Greta herself needing to be put in a special needs school I live in europe (the netherlands) and used to live in the USA. If there is one thing that is evident to me it is that the school in neither country "works well" We have kids coming out of school dumb as bricks and its a HUGE epidemic that needs addressing. When schools are so woefully inadequate the last thing we need are people proposing leaving it or agendas that dismiss its importance.
I dont think i exagerate the importance of those fridays at all, if anything i understate them. Not just the fridays but the need for MORE school, and BETTER school, not less. Society is so uneducated these days and so easily swayed by nonsense facts society is barely holding together right now.
Whether schools are good or not good enough is an entirely different discussion. I was born and raised (and still live) in The Netherlands and I have no problem with our school system.
(I disagree with the constant changing of the system and with their structural underfunding, but that is also besides the point)
The education system is not the reason for the climate crises. Nor do we need more study into it (although I would be fine with that).
What we need is action.
It isnt an entierly different discussion. When part of your tactic is to protest schools it is no longer a seperate discussion but rather vital to the current one.
Yes we need action, it isnt the study, from the perspective of scientists, that is lacking. What is lacking is the understanding int he general population which allows for climate change deniers to exist. This is the direct result of lack of good education and critical thinking skills.
All I know is most people around the world, including the dutch and americans, are dumb as bricks and are more than capable of being quite bright if they were educated. People just stop learning how to learn, and actually doing it, a long time ago.
The climate crisis is a direct result of this, it is why climate change deniers can thrive when its so easy to debunk.
@freemo
I'm glad to read that even though for a large part I disagree with your analyses.
I do wonder how it is possible that too many people don't see the problem. If the general population was more intelligent, things may be better.
I don't think lack of intelligence is (very) relevant though as people who should be smart, still don't want to do anything about it.
As is often the case, money/financial interests is the cause.
DemocracyNow! had a relevant segment on David Koch
I will check this out. But please be aware I am not and have never been a koch fan. So any article about ock to discredit him will mostly be lost on me since i largely just dont care about kock or his opinions much.
Yea he did. But thats not money's problem. Only reason money works to convince people of climate change denial is because people arent educated enough to do the research themselves so they rely on media to convince them what to think int he first place.
In a well educated society Koch's money would be a vain attempt lost into the ether and the only result would be him having less money with no effect on climate activism.
So while koch was an asshole I wouldnt say he is the root of the problem, only the symptom.
@freemo
It's a short article, but my point was the (insane imo) influence of money (on politics) and the Koch brothers put a lot of money into discrediting climate change. And it looks like they succeeded far better then I could've imagined and surely more then I wanted.
@stevenroose